Saturday, December 23, 2006

Michael Metzler and poohsthink with more great-sense commentary!

Obvious thoughts about Ministrywatchman’s apology: James Wilson Saves Me Typing Time This Morning



Comments in brackets are mine [Michael Metzler]:


Michael,


I saw Chauncey’s second post last night (i.e., Thursday). I immediately went to Ministry Watchman to see if they had a response, and found their “Public Apology.” I cracked up at their “explanation.” I also checked out the Flickr link in the comments section.


In today’s post, Chauncey recommends that we run a Google test. I already did last night, and couldn’t believe Ministry Watchman’s staff would be so stupid to botch their second cover-up exactly the same way they botched their first.


But laying all of that aside, the “Public Apology” was an insult to every person who has ever had to look another person straight in the eye and apologize for something. An anonymous person is taking the heat for the actions of another anonymous person. How courageous! [indeed!]


How, by the way, does an anonymous person “take full responsibility?”


One final observation. Reading the comments to the “Public Apology” section makes me suspect that the posters are all Ministry Watchman staffers using different pseudonyms, or, in the irony of all ironies, Ministry Watchman’s fans are behaving like members of a cult.


Life, liberty, happiness, [and personal identity!]


James Leroy Wilson


Sound thoughts from abroad!


Thanks once again for posting some clear thinking, Mr. Metzler.


Sniffin

Friday, December 22, 2006

It's Over Again for the Terrorist at MW

Well sports fans, Fallacy Slayer back again to let you know that Mr. Matthew Chancey has exposed the second major cover up over at the Blind Watchtower of the Epstein's. Be sure to check it out at www.mrsbinoculars.com.

In the meantime here are some excerpts from his excellent article that I don't think we will ever see answered from the terrorist over at MW.

"Apparently, the Watchman's fervent assertion that “Mrs. Binoculars” was not Jennifer Epstein at all but was an old photo pulled (with permission, of course) from an online photo album turned out to be, well, a lie. But the Watchman is not to blame—it was his web guy who was at fault. Turns out, the poor guy had concocted an elaborate ruse involving a fake online travel album, stolen photos, and backdated timestamps—all to avoid being caught lying to the Watchman about securing permission from the (unnamed) real owners for the use of the copyrighted Mrs. Binoculars photo. "



"In fact, not producing the original source photo is, in itself, evidence that I'm right. The original photo, in its entirety, would have settled the question once and for all. The fact that Ministry Watchman would not produce the original photo can only reasonably mean that the photo would not be helpful to their cause. All they had to do was produce the uncropped, unaltered original, and show us the face of the actual subject—a face that is not Jennifer Epstein's. They could have proven me to be wrong. Case closed. The fact that Ministry Watchman won't produce this information can only reasonably mean that the original photo would not be helpful to their cause."

And one of my favorite points comes from one of his footnotes:

"When was the last time you heard of anybody constructing a time-intensive, incredibly elaborate cover-up scheme of this nature, all because they forgot to ask for permission for an image from an anonymous and painfully non-professional site? Besides, didn't Watchman notice the many non-original images uploaded to that album? For example, the image of Garry Moore (spelled wrong on Flickr) is obviously scanned out of a magazine, and still has the photographer's credit in the corner. ynotpic is clearly not the owner of that or several of the other pictures, so whe should we assume that the banner of Mrs. Binoculars belongs to him? "

As we have outlined numerous times before on this site, it is OVER for MW. Anyone with eyes to see knows that MW can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything. All they do is keep repeating the tactics of Adolph Hitler:

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."


Again, we call on the Epstein's to repent and turn to Christ for their public fraud, deception, and defamation of godly men and women.

Until next time, I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Thursday, December 21, 2006

Ministry Watchman offers "A Public Apology"

The following is a summary of their comments:

I, webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, fire myself, the webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, for being bad and caught in a lie.

Furthermore, I rehire myself, as webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, and promise to do better in the future.

Disregard this uncalculated error for which I have been caught. Forget that I so confidently set forth a lie which was discovered and exposed my ongoing and newly heightened level of deception. I recommit to you as webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, to be more deceptive in the future and will do my utmost, my very best, not to get caught again. Also, I promise to now take down the banner for my website so I can further cover my tracks. My only request is that at least one of you submits two dozen comments on my site, each under different names, all of which praise me for my nobility in admitting that "I am a lying liar who lies."


Please do not reference the Iraqi Minister of propaganda.

Thank you in advance for your patience. I am the wizard of Oz, never mind that man behind the curtain, disregard deceptions that are apparent, I am the great wizard of Oz - no really, stop laughing, I am the wizard, I mean the Watchman!


P.S. I will also post more comments to myself telling me how noble I am and what a great work I am doing. Thank you for continuing to read me.


Folks, does Watchman's apology pass the Sniff test?

NOT FOR ME!

Sniffin

Saturday, December 16, 2006

Breaking News




Well ladies and gents I am pleased to point you to some of the most insightful, clear eyed writing I've read in weeks at www.mrsbinoculars.com

I won't spoil the fun by commenting except to say -

Mr. Chancey sir I salute you!

S.J.
"Now Matt's fed up!"



Tuesday, December 12, 2006

Breaking News!

Well sports fans, it seems in the pursuit of truth, justice, and a clean name for my friends, there is a new voice entering the fray. We were contacted earlier today by Matt Chancey. I have reprinted the message in its entirety (except for the removal of Mr. Chancey's personal contact info).
We have taken great and scrupulous care to verify that Mr. Chancey is who he claims to be, and not somebody operating under a pseudonym.

Stay tuned for further news in this breaking story.


from: Matthew Chancey
to: swordbearerjohn@gmail.com
date: Dec 12, 2006
subject: FYI

Dear Fed Up,

I have observed your rigorous handling of the attacks by Ministry Watchman against Doug Phillips and BCA over the last couple of weeks on your website and have been encouraged.

As one who has known Doug for more than eleven years and observed him in various capacities and circumstances, I know his character to be above reproach, and given this fact, I felt compelled to no longer remain silent in the face of the numerous slanders that Ministry Watchman has lodged against him.

Over the last several days, I have conducted my own independent investigation of Ministry Watchman and would like to send you a full article, within the next 24-hours, for your review and consideration to post which explores the following questions:

------

"The Unmasking of Mrs. Binoculars"

> Are Ministry Watchman and Jennifer Epstein guilty of massive fraud on the public?

> Has the Internet community been manipulated and played for fools by a woman working behind the scenes for months to weave a web of deception capable of entrapping both friends and foe in order to ultimately carry out her vengeance?

> Mounting evidence points to Jennifer Epstein as at least one of the key individuals behind the launching of Ministry Watchman.

> Is Jennifer Epstein Mrs. Binoculars?

…Stay tuned for proposed answers to these questions and more."

------

I will also be requesting that Pooh’s Think consider this article for publication as well.

I am offering you this as a third party, based on a third party investigation. It should be noted that I am not associated with any of the websites involved in this issue, nor have I ever posted on any. Neither am I an employee of Vision Forum, nor have I been asked or commissioned by Vision Forum or Doug Phillips to conduct this investigation, though I do strongly believe in Doug's work and have been a friend and supporter of his ministry for years.

Thank you for your consideration of this matter.

Regards,

Matthew L. Chancey

xxx-xxx-xxxx – you may call for your verification purposes only. Please do not publish my phone number.

Friday, December 8, 2006

It’s Over for the Ministers of Propaganda

Good morning folks! Fallacy Slayer back again to make a few observations on the latest lies and cover up by the Blind Ministry Lap Dog of the Epstein’s. First, they assert that this site has obscene references. Obscene references: I don't believe it. The only obscenities have come from members of the Epstein family who have used the f-word and others, as we have documented in other post. This is MW's way of saying we don't want anyone to be aware of our cover-up regarding the ongoing sins of the Epstein’s in direct relation to their adultery. After all, they have refused to post any comments on the facts. You can no longer bring up the marriage bed issue over at MW. Fallacy Slayer would like to point out that this is a tactic of what people engaged in a cover-up do. We will just shut down the discussion. We would rather talk about pools, about how stupid we think Beall Phillips is. That is o.k. but facts about the formerly anonymous accusers...? Don’t mention anything about them!

Hmmm, let me see if I get this straight. Ministry Lapdog covers up the fact that Jen Epstein--self-proclaimed prophet of integrity from Jens Gems and co-author of the articles on herself at MW---was disciplined for numerous sins including some directly related to her ongoing cruelty towards her husband (I’m glad my wife isn’t like this) in connection with an adultery she committed, a child born out of wedlock, and the fighting over the bed of adultery that went on all the way leading up to their excommunication.

But it gets worse: Ministry Lapdog raises numerous vicious attacks on women at BCA (I am talking mean-spirited and vicious) and supplies the internet with reams of hateful innuendo--never of course mentioning their own cover-up of these key facts. And lets not forget that it was Ministry Watchman that posted the documents raising issues of adultery so this subject could be discussed by the world. Now that they have been exposed as liars, who hid critical facts from the general public, who doctored documents, who attacked innocent people, and who spread gossip---and lets not forget this---who compromised all their integrity by turning their site into the personal web tool of Jennifer Epstein (whose credibility has been annihilated by her own words and actions)---NOW, they want to shut down discussion on the fact that Jennifer and Mark were fighting for 13 years over her sin.

Fallacy Slayer sees a big, BIG, problem with this one!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, Ministry Watchman is no more. They are not a watchman of anything. They are now merely an extension of the Epstein household. They have staked their whole reputation on two excommunicants known (and now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt) for lying and deception. They believed that Doug Phillips counseled Ligonier Ministries in their lawsuit against Frank Vance, which was proven to be an outright lie by the VFM board (Read the VFM board statement). Since they had worked tirelessly to bring down Ligonier they thought they could bring down Phillips too! They have risked everything over a couple that spent more than a decade fighting like cats and dogs over the wife's adultery. Even now they could save face, by recognizing that they have a tiger by the tail. I want to believe they were simply duped, but at this point they have the facts and appear committed to linking their integrity with the Epstein’s. Charles (I mean Jennifer Epstein) Fisher is now promising that there is going to be several more exposes on Phillips all with “primary source” documents in the future. Fallacy Slayer wants to know how can anyone believe anything she writes or says after everything she has said so far has been proven categorically false.

It's over. Ministry Watchman is over.

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Evidence of the Epstein's Supterfuge

Mike Metzler has contacted us and asked if we could post the orginial bogus email that Ministry Watchman sent out with the intentional purpose to deceive people into believing that it was from Vision Forum. Take a look for yourself folks:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Doug Phillips, Family Man, Sabotages Marriage
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:39:00 -0600
From: V F
To:
"

Doug Phillips, Vision Forum Family Man Sabotages Marriage
http://ministrywatchman.com/?p=50


In a day of intense public scrutiny and criticism of nearly all things
Christian, Doug Phillips may be the most influential under-the-radar
Christian leader that you need to know more about. Best known for his
Vision Forum catalog — a colorful collection of apparently innocuous
family friendly products mailed to more than a million people each
autumn — Doug Phillips uses the wealth generated by his for-profit
sales, as well as donations from the public, to promote his vision on
controversial issues including education (home education is the only
Biblical method), birth control (wrong in all circumstances), politics
(a vote for either Kerry or Bush was a sin), and the roles of husbands
and wives (hyper-Patriarchy at home and at church). Doug Phillips
first came to the attention of those of us at Ministry Watchman when
he publicly defended his buddy, R.C. Sproul, Jr., defrocked after
confessing to ecclesiastical tyranny and the theft and illegal use of
a church denomination's tax-ID number. Our curiosity was further
piqued when we learned of Doug Phillips' behind-the-scenes counsel of
Ligonier Ministries in its unbiblical lawsuit against Christian
blogger, Frank Vance. These two incidents inspired a Ministry Watchman
investigation of Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. Our investigation is
still ongoing (please email us with any relevant information), but it
has already produced enough information for several compelling
articles that you won't want to miss. The first, an exposé of how Doug
Phillips' family practices have not matched his family preaching,
begins below. — MW ...


Read the entire letter here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, I ask once again how can we believe anything these people say??????

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Thursday, December 7, 2006

Tactic and History

The act of the Epsteins is not new, as is stated in the Boerne Christian Assembly declaration:

It is a strategic tactic, the goal of which appears to be to confuse uninvolved third parties and to deflect attention from the real sin of the couple and the due process of accountability brought against them by a covenanting body that knows them very well and has walked with them for many years.


In sum, their ongoing behavior has been consistent with some of the very issues for which they were excommunicated by the BCA congregation without a single vote in opposition.


The pattern of the Epstein’s has been consistent: Wife complains about husband being angry and unkind. Husband is angry about lack of submission, strong will, and issue of infidelity. Wife accuses husband of being unstable. Husband grows angrier. Wife lords over husband with words of repentance but no fruit and condemns husband for his sin. Both are confronted for sin. Wife feigns innocent, helpless, abused one. Husband runs to the aid of wife, unites in cause and declares himself to be the problem. Wife gloats in self-righteousness. This pattern is repeated over and over again – the man is emasculated.

This should be apparent even in their offered defense. Jen leads the charge. Jen is the voice. Mark says, yes ma’am. And, he is shamed before all as Jennifer offers her cavalier account of “The Parable of the Bed.” They spread their story abroad and then complain when people talk of it? They have sewn discord with one another, in a church, in a community, and now seek to go abroad. The man if further shamed before all, and Jennifer continues to sew her seeds of division.

Jennifer’s nonchalant attitude about something for which one should be ashamed (forgiven or not) should provide insight into the home of the Epsteins.

Do you see the fruit of the Spirit in her tone, accounts, or rehearsal of her sin? Why is she first in her cause and not her husband if so much unity now exists? If there is unity how is this helping their marriage – as she leads the fight for the family? What is going on here? On the one hand Jennifer is said to be this sweat, peaceful, submissive wife, who causes no trouble and doesn’t sin in her marriage, and on the other hand she is the outspoken tactical attorney lodging an attack? Can you image living with this woman? Have you not read the tone of her attitude?

Oh, but this is not kind you say. This is not Christian or loving to speak of them this way. These are the facts! The facts of their marriage and interaction with one another are not Christ-like! It is their story which is not loving. It is their home which has fallen apart. It is their children who are being lost! Speaking of these issues has been their choice – they have brought this before the world! Why? Because they don’t want to be held accountable. Boerne Christian Assembly’s comments are discreet. Jennifer and Mark have desired to publish abroad and then complain it all happened. They have forsaken their family for rebellion.

What should be desired? Repentance not to be repented of - bring forth fruit of repentance, which embraces the judgments of God:

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. (Ps 19:7-9)


The Epsteins are still in rebellion, and they’ve taken their temper tantrum to the streets and beyond.

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. (Rom 16:17-18)


Signed,

Sniffin

Moderator's Comment

Among other misrepresentations, Ministry Watchman accused this site, STILL FED UP, of "filthy language." While the previous site, dedicated to this current cause, did contain a word, which is less than comely, the articles and commentary of this site bear no signs or evidence of "filthy language." To the contrary, we have attempted to maintain a civil environment void of expletives. However, STILL FED UP has received multiple comments from one claiming to be Natasha Epstein, knowing private details, who curses like a sailor – we have had to screen such comments. An attempt to bolster the Epstein's credibility and question this site due to crass speech or irreverent tone is absurd – re-read Jen's account of the bed of adultery for a reminder of their cavalier speech.


S.J.

Jennifer Epstein’s Own Private Legal System

Fallacy back again….

What in the world is Jen talking about? BCA leaders breaking a “privileged” communication about Jen’s adultery? Oh please!!!. This is yet just another example of Jen Epstein—minister of propaganda—Internet Terrorist—openly lying to the general public.

Fallacy Slayer wants to know if Jennifer has any idea what a “privilege” is? Obviously she is not dealing with any “privilege” in the Bible, since no such privilege exists. In fact, the Bible requires ongoing sins to be dealt with (Which is what BCA did). If people don’t deal with them, the people are to be brought before the church and corrected for their sins (Which is what BCA did). If they won’t hear the church, they are to be kicked out. (Matt 18) (Which is what BCA did).
Did they really think they could go to many witnesses for counsel, spill the beans of their sordid family crisis, both continue to sin on the very subject matter related to the adultery, and then prevent the leaders that they went to from holding them accountable for addressing the very issues? Fallacy Slayer is beginning to see some problems… Are they suggesting that church discipline may not involve addressing relevant facts? (By the way, can you imagine the kicking and screaming they would have done if they had been disciplined by BCA and no facts had been presented to the congregation---you can’t have it both ways Jen!)

Fallacy Slayer is going to ask again if this just another example of an Epstein legal threat? Yes, the same Epstein’s that hypocritically whined for months on the internet about how wrong it is for Christians to sue Christians, after they had themselves threatened leaders at BCA (see BCA document) with legal threats and then attempted extortion. News Flash for all those who may have forgotten: The Epstein’s NO longer have the protection of 1 Corthinians 6 as Excommunicants.
Fallacy Slayer and the others have been pointing these issues out for the last week and a half. However, over at the Blind Ministry Lapdog of the Epstein’s site they won’t even allow discussion of these issues.

Well obviously, now they are claiming that some supposed legal right has been violated—a clergyman-communicant privilege. Kind of like the attorney/client privilege. The problem here is that THEY DON’T HAVE THE FIRST IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! They are literally making things up. Nobody has a “copyright” or “ecclesiastical privilege” to get counsel from a group of church leaders and then never, ever have their sins exposed if they continue in them.

You can do the google searches for yourself folks. Fallacy Slayer did. (Just like Jennifer does when she talks like a lawyer on her site) Here is what you will discover—the clergy privilege (where it even applies) prevents ordained ministers like Roman Catholic Priests from violating the rules of their Church by being compelled to testify on confidential matters, it does not prevent them from testifying. Also, it applies to a secular court, not a church. Also, it never even applies when there are multiple people present or exposed to the facts.

Is Jennifer suggesting that she or Mark were alone with Phillips and that they revealed this “big secret” to no one but him. This is really, really hard to believe. It is especially hard to believe given the fact that all the evidence, which she is in and she has revealed to indicate that there were always multiple parties involved in meetings with the two of them. That is what the documents (some of which have now been revealed to be dishonestly doctored by Jennifer to mislead people into thinking there was only one person) indicate! (See some of Fallacy Slayer’s other post for discussions on this point) Let’s just make sure we keep dealing with the actual facts folks, and not the fantasies of Jennifer Epstein.

Fallacy Slayer would also like to point out that beyond this absurd privilege claim is that fact that Jennifer is her own worst enemy. She cannot control herself, so she spreads information about her own adultery to hundreds and hundreds of people---now thousands---through her letters and now the Internet.

Folks, isn’t it clear that we are dealing with bitter people that will do just about anything for vengeance? Fallacy Slayer thinks it is VERY CLEAR!!!!!

I’m just the Fallacy Slayer

Jen Epstein Tells all of San Antonio, and then The World About Her Adultery

Well folks, Fallacy Slayer back again to point out some important points and set the record straight about Jen Epstein telling the world all about her adultery. There is no mention of Jen Epstein’s adultery in the BCA document. Read the document for your self folks. www.boernechristianassembly.org. I couldn’t find it in there. The BCA document mentions a lot of serious sins, many I would guess were related to the ongoing, never-ending battles over her adultery, but there is no mention of the adultery. Hmmm??? This isn’t looking good to the Fallacy Slayer.

Also, BCA apparently had to deal with the issue directly for years (according to their statement) and then at the time of her excommunication, had to present the facts. I have yet to see one shred of evidence that they said or did anything inappropriate here. How about all of you?

Fallacy Slayer will state once again that the question remains: How did the world know about Jen’s adultery? The answer: They learned about it from Jennifer herself.

What? Yes, that’s right, the world learned about it from Jennifer herself.
Most people know that after covering up the real issues related to her sins in the first article that Jen Epstein/Charles Fisher wrote and sent around the country, that in her second article she attached documents mentioning her adultery. Do you understand what is happening here---Jen Epstein brought this information to the Internet. Oh, she diminished it and minimized it—but she leaked it to the Internet.

Fallacy Slayer wants to point out what some people might not understand. Before this happened, Jen had already spread the news through her own community in Texas. Why did she do this? Because she was angry at her discipline. Just how did she do it? Well, she drafted a seventeen page letter demanding that the men and women of BCA repent to her and then gave guidelines to specific men and women for how they must go about repenting to her. Can you believe this folks??? Is this what the Bible requires of those whose excommunicate someone? That they then repent to the excommunicant? Fallacy Slayer is having a hard time understanding this one.

One of her complaints was that she had been excommunicated for ongoing sins related to her adultery. She thought that was unfair—so she told the world. In fact, she sent the seventeen page letter to many people (that’s how we got a copy of it), passed it around the community, and, of course, it continued to be passed around the community. I have been hearing about this story for a long time and so have others not related to BCA. This meant that more and more people were talking about Jennifer Epstein’s adultery and the facts of her adultery. Frankly, I can barely believe how restrained those BCA people are. They did not spell this out in their formal statement.

Jennifer, on the other hand is shameless.

Inquiring minds want to know why hasn’t anyone else pointed this FACT out?


I’m just the Fallacy Slayer

Wednesday, December 6, 2006

Introduction to this sordid affair.

Editor's Note: We have modified the date and time stamp of this post so it will remain at the top of the blog throughout the day. Once you have read it please scroll down to make sure you don't miss any of the other honest commentary here at Still Fed UP.

We want to thank Mike Metzler for his evenhanded commentary over at Pooh's Think and we encourage you to drop over and read it for yourself.

If you do, make sure that you come back and check on Fallacy Slayer's comments on the whole sordid affair.

Finally I want to remind everyone who is reading through the mud, neither Mike Metzler, his Pooh's Think or the writers here at Still Fed Up are associated with BCA or its leadership.

S.J.
--------------------

"I reported on how the Epstein family arrived at Boerne Christian Assembly with a
marriage that was basically sound, although not perfect."
- Charles Fisher

"Jen stressed to Beall that since Mark was already so angry, she did everything she could to keep the peace, and not invite more anger." - Charles Fisher

"Furthermore, Section C of the Statement addresses sin in Jen’s life from 1989, from before she was a Christian, and from which she fully repented in 1990, when she came to know the Lord." - Charles Fisher

"to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted "
Definition of Repent From Crosswalk.com's Online Hebrew Lexicon"

In the last few days we have used many different tones and styles here at Still Fed UP. Sometimes sarcastic, sometimes hyperbolic but now as we continue to defend an ever widening circle of our friends and acquaintances I want to be serious. I want to be reserved and candid.

In light of the above quotes I want to set the stage for the rest of the discussion. It really is an introduction of sorts, a lens, which gives you a glimpse into the Epsteins as they were during their membership at BCA.

I am going to make an appeal to your emotions, but don't worry this is not a guilt trip or an illogical appeal, it is an appeal to your heart.

Indulge me for a moment.

I want to talk about love. Love and forgiveness. All of us who have the love of a spouse know what is it to fail those we love. We sin against our husbands and wives with our words and our deeds. We have feet of clay. Perhaps we even persist in our sin for a period of time. Eventually when we truly repent we seek to console and be consoled by the one we love whom we have been estranged from during our journey in sin.

I've done it myself.

I also know what the writer of the Psalms meant when he said in Psalm 32 "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered. " and again later " And shout for joy, all you upright in heart! " I know the feeling of relief when my wife gives me the comfort of forgiveness.

Consider all of that in light of one Jennifer Epstein.

She has admitted to committing adultery. Her fruit of repentance?

Keeping the bed of adultery.

Folks I am not speaking metaphorically. She literally kept the bed in which she violated her marriage vows. In spite of her husbands pleas to the contrary.

Her reasoning?

Good stewardship.

In fact the Epsteins had and fought about the bed through most of the time that they were members and under the care and discipline of Boerne Christian Assembly.

(SWORDBEARER'S NOTE: What I am about to say is in no way a vindication of anyone who at anytime threatens violence against their spouse or behaves in a manner contrary to the Word of God )

Perhaps Mark's fits of violent rage, though not condonable, begin to make a certain amount of sense. In fact the word of God tells us to expect this behavior from men in Mark's position.

Proverbs 6:32-35 says this

Whoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding; He who does so destroys his own soul. Wounds and dishonor he will get, And his reproach will not be wiped away. For jealousy is a husband's fury; Therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance. He will accept no recompense, Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts

The fact the Epsteins have a marriage today is probably due to that members of BCA prevailing upon Jennifer to finally get rid of the bed.

I can only imagine Mark's relief upon returning home the day he found out the bed was gone.

As much as I would like for it to, the story doesn't end there.

After being pressed to give up the bed of adultery, Jennifer apparently gave the wooden parts of the bed to their son for crafts. I do not know the details and I will not speculate as to what he made or why she did it, as this is entirely too serious a matter.

Ponder with me, if you will, the emotions that you would have felt in Mark's position when he found out that the wooden projects his son had been making of late were the pieces and parts of the bed that had plagued his household for so long, and were now decorating the WHOLE house.

Would you have been angry?
Would you have been irrational?
Would you have

"talked constantly of killing people"?
or have been "fantasizing of killing someone in a particular group," maybe the group to which the other party in the adultery belonged ?

Remember what Proverbs told us -

For jealousy is a husband's fury; Therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance. He will accept no recompense, Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts (emph mine)

(SWORDBEARER'S SECOND DISCLAIMER - Neither Still Fed Up OR the Bible condone any lack of self control, threatening your family or any other wicked behavior. The previous reasoning was simply to demonstrate the mechanics of the relationships in dispute, not to justify it.)

Yet this is the nature of the marriage Mr. Fisher wants us to believe is "basically sound." This is how Mr. Fisher wants us to think Mrs. Epstein does "everything she could to keep the peace, and not invite more anger" and THIS is the woman that Mr. Fisher would have us understand had "fully repented in 1990" of "sin in Jen’s life from 1989" although she kept that bed in one form or another for years after the sin.

Mrs. Epstein in the second article insists she was following Jesus admonition to obey His commands. She seems to have forgotten one namely:

Matthew 22:39
And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

I would submit to you that her husband is her neighbor.

All of this is the true context from which the entire situation must be read.

Now I want you to go back and read the BCA statement, I want you to go and read the documentation that Mr. Fisher and Mrs. Epstein so helpfully provided, finally consider the first and second parts of this little saga as they tell it.

I trust it looks a little different now.

To the writers at Ministry Watchman I leave this admonition from Matthew 7:

16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Proverbs 10:18&19
Whoever hides hatred has lying lips, And whoever spreads slander is a fool. In the multitude of words sin is not lacking, But he who restrains his lips is wise.

Proverbs 10:23 To do evil is like sport to a fool, But a man of understanding has wisdom


I trust you can see why I am
"Still Fed Up"

S.J.

"The Parable of the Bed"

Fools make a mock at sin (Pr 14:9)


Jennifer chimes in at Jen’s Gems with a parable regarding her bed of adultery and sin. Frankly, I could not believe my eyes as I read this account in its irreverent form. For convenience I have reposted her parable in its entirety along with commentary that follows. The subtitle to this post is in no way intended to be a subtle introduction, but an insightful precursor to this cavalier account of circumstance which should have been reflected upon with great sobriety.


Once upon a time, there was a bed. It was a lovely, grand piece of furniture, but it was still just a bed. The bed served its purpose well and provided many nights of refreshing sleep. Then there was sin. The bed itself did not commit sin, but there was sin that took place in the bed, so the bed needed discipline.

The owner of the bed made a declaration, "The bed shall lose its mattress and all its linens." And it was so. And life for the bed was good.

However, the bed's master changed his mind several years later and decided that the bed had not been disciplined severely enough. A new declaration was made, "The bed shall have a different style of mattress." And it was so. And life for the bed was good once again.

Not entirely satisfied, though, another declaration was forthcoming, "The bed shall be put up on the trading block for auction." And it was so. But weeks passed and no one bid on the bed. And so the bed went back to being a bed again.

A couple years later, the angry master declared, "The bed shall be put out of its misery." But no one wanted the bed that was now 20 years old. It had served its usefulness and needed to be put out to pasture with all the other old beds.

Tired of the ever-changing declarations, the master's wife decided to become a judge and sentenced the bed to immediate execution. The bed was then chopped to pieces.

In its second life, the bed was then reincarnated into a workshop in the garage, while the master and his wife were relegated to sleeping on the floor. The master and his lady were very pleased with the bed's new purpose.

And the master and his lady lived happily ever after – well, after they commissioned a new bed. And life for the new bed was good.

A couple of years later, however, the master was indeed surprised to find that the copyrighted version of his story of the bed had been strangely warped and twisted, and was now being produced without authorization by young men with no scruples for honesty. Knowing the original story had only been told to his spiritual shepherd, the master and his lady were grieved to hear that their ecclesiastical privileges of confidentiality had thus been violated. And life for the pastor was not good.


Rather than a sober account of her side of the story, Jen rehearses this disgraceful report in patronizing tone. Does this sound like someone who is remorseful? Does this sound like someone who is grieved over sin? Does this sound like someone who is repentant? Or, does this sound like someone who is pompous and arrogant?


Jen herself has something to say about such an attitude? She has commented at length regarding her expertise in evaluation of the fruit of repentance:


Sunday, November 19, 2006

Two Sides of Forgiveness


I know of one church for instance, where there were multiple adulteries (one woman, seven pastors) and all eight people continue to "fellowship" together because they said, "I'm sorry." Confession without repentance is not enough. A natural consequence should have been the loss of fellowship for all and removal from the ministry for all the pastors, at a bare minimum. Yet, these eight people and their spouses all continue to go to this church every Sunday, "fellowshipping" together. Can you feel the tension? There is no repentance here. These spouses might have forgiven the adulterers, but the offenders have not received that forgiveness yet, as they have not truly repented. Where is their shame?...


One example of an unrepentant heart is pride. In the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee was so full of pride that he couldn't be forgiven that day. The tax collector, on the other hand, was so humbled by his own sense of depravity, that he was able to receive the forgiveness that comes with repentance. Sweet forgiveness…


Romans tell us to "note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them." See clearly who is causing a division in the church, who is offending. Do offenders cause division in the church? Always! And offenses are always contrary to the doctrine we have learned, so we are told to avoid them, not to fellowship with them. This is hard, even harsh, but those who refuse to repent should not continue to fellowship as if nothing happened just because they say, "I'm sorry." There must be repentance in order to receive forgiveness.


Proverbs tells us that "the way of the unfaithful is hard," which is what helps him come to repentance. Let's not interfere with the hard way he sometimes needs.


As Jen asked, can you feel the tension in the house? Did you read any shame? Does Jen’s account sound like someone who is repentant? Or, does Jen sound like someone who has just said “I’m sorry”?


Furthermore, Jen quotes from Romans and counsels those who find themselves in the position of observing one who causes divisions to avoid them:


Do offenders cause division in the church? Always!


"I'm sorry." There must be repentance in order to receive forgiveness…


Proverbs tells us that "the way of the unfaithful is hard," which is what helps him come to repentance. Let's not interfere with the hard way he sometimes needs.


Sounds biblical! Sounds like what Boerne Christian Assembly did! They separated themselves from those who caused divisions – from those who are still causing divisions.


Sniffin

Women as Doormats? I Don't Think So!!!!!!!

Jen Epstein has gone to great lengths to say the women of BCA are mindless doormats. She also said that women are forbidden from speaking, but according to the post she states that women (Beall, Reba, and Kathleen) used words to respond to her? Further, she says that Beall was not allowed to offer any theological opinion apart from her husband. However, she met with her alone on six different occasions according to her own testimony and also sent her an email from her own email account discussing theological matters. Here's the email which to me sounds pretty intelligent? However, you be the judge:

"You said that this new belief in sinlessness might change. I pray that it does. If it does, will you still emphatically assert that you have not sinned recently in your marriage and that you did not sin in the meeting with the men last week? You must realize the implications of the beliefs you espouse. If your doctrine changes, will you start to sin again? Will you then realize that you did sin during the time you held to this doctrine of perfectionism? Or will you have stopped sinning only while you held to this doctrine?"

Mmmmmm. Notice that Beall uses the word "men" and not "man." Sounds like multiple witlessness to me. Another problem with their story to be pointed out in another post. Notice also, that she uses the word "doctrine" in her discussion with Jen? I thought Beall wasn't even allowed to discuss these kind of issues??? "Belief in sinlessness" which is another theological point. So what I am trying to understand is how can anyone believe these statements from a known liar? The logic just isn't adding up, folks. Isn't this just another red herring argument to try and discredit a duly constituted local church that loved this couple enough to hold them accountable to the very Church Covenant they agreed to be held accountable to when they VOLUNTARILY joined the Church?

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Procedural Due Process

Fallacy Slayer back again to ask the question: I wonder how Mark and Jennifer like the fact that Mike Metzler is now using the same standard to Judge their story that they praised him for using against Phillips in the beginning of this sad saga? In fact, Mike is even apply this standard towards Charles Fisher, Frank Vance and Ministry Watchman. In fact, Mike says this about the Epstein hit piece:

"I think you will find that most of your judgments, if in fact you have formulated some judgments, are in fact grounding in very little if in nothing at all...If you boil out the actual facts that have been reasonably established, or those facts apparently not disputed by either party, you are not left with much to tell any kind of story at all"

Well, what was that standard Mark Epstein praised Mike for using? It was his comment on November 28, 2006 post: Two or Three Witnesses: Is there a different "biblical" standard for tyrants? http://livingbytruth.blogspot.com/

Well, I wonder if he is still going to praise Mike for using that kind of scrunity on his wife's story about their experience????

Again, every document that Jennifer has produced by BCA shows there were more than one witness to what Doug Phillips did. In fact, she had to docture one of the PDF documents in order to make it look like Doug acted as a one man show. Further, every document she has presented testifies to the fact that their were multiple witnesses. So Jennifer, where's your proof that Doug acted alone? It certainly can't be from you because you are not an impartial witness--you are the accused. In case you have forgotten the names she listed in her latest diatribe they are:

Bob Welch
Bob Sarratt
Mo Gill
Richard and Reba Short
Kathleen

I'm no math expert, but I can count, and that's more than 1 man or woman witness. Doesn't sound like proceedural injustice to me!

Again, how can we believe anything these people say? Where's the journalist intregrity over at Ministry Watchman? I guess they are blind after all?

Others Can See Clearly Now

Well folks, Fallacy Slayer back again to point out once again that we are not the only ones who see issues with the Excommunicated Epstein's story. Ol Doug Wilson has now chimed in and said a few witty things on the matter. The line I really appreciated is this one:

"But if you answer the central charges forcefully, cogently, and scripturally, then this gives any fair-minded individuals who hear about it all that they need. "Okay, this is clearly a Proverbs 18:17 situation."

http://www.dougwils.com/

(Since we live in an biblical illiterate cultural I'll provide the full text to Proverbs 18:17
He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.)

This site was set up with the specific intention to point out the fallacies of the Internet Terrorist because the "Sunnis" or the "Shia" (which ever one you want to label them) over at Blind Ministry Watchdog were not dealing with the "forcefully, cogent and scriptural" arguments of BCA. This site is not going to become a place where we debate the merits of the Epstein's case because they have been dealt with by the local church. Again, the local Church is innocent and the Epstein's are guilty.

I have issued a press release outlining the simple and clear facts of the case last week. I will list them again since we all have short memories:

1. Ministry Watchman received and published the reports of Mark and Jennifer Epstein, a couple excommunicated for numerous sins including gross unrepentant lying, with no attempt to contact the local church before writing their article. They assumed the guilt of the local church and the innocence of the excommunicated. In so doing they broke the law of God.

2. Ministry Watchman lied to the world about their attempt to give an opportunity to respond prior to publication of their article. Exodus 20:16

3. Ministry Watchman has broken the law of God by falsely claiming Doug Phillips "counseled" Ligonier Ministries in their lawsuit against Frank Vance. Exodus 20:16

4. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by bringing accusations against elders without witnesses in violation of 1 Timothy 5:19

5. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by claiming that Doug Phillips acted independently in excommunicating the Epstein's. Exodus 20:16

6. Ministry Watchman has proclaimed that they are antinomian by arguing that they are not bound by the law of God when it comes to holding themselves to the same standard it seeks to hold Doug Phillips to.

7. Ministry Watchman actively deceived Christians by presenting an email that looked like it was from VF. Read the statement at www.boernechristianassembly.org

Another former VF intern weighs in...sorta

C.S. Hayden (another Former VF intern) has some pithy things to say about anonymous Internet typists on a "moral crusade" who use fake email addresses.

Yes gentle readers I am aware of the irony.

Ironically fed up

S.J.

Tuesday, December 5, 2006

Breaking News...

Well sports fans, Fallacy Slayer wanted to bring to everyone's attention that Michael Metzler over at Poohsthink.com is beginning to see all the fallacies in Jen Eptein and the Blind Ministry Watchdog site. I encourage everyone to read Mr. Metzler's insightful analysis of many of Jen's lies. http://poohsthink.com/.

In fact, Mr. Metzler points out that "[Still Fed Up has raised numerous problems already that they [Ministry Lapdog of the Epsteins]refuse to address; rather, they just slander the nature of the content of Still Fed Up. And as I have argued above, given the unsubstantiated nature of this narrative and the BCA’s otherwise presumed innocence, nothing further than their strong denial of allegations was necessary.]"


Stayed tuned to this site for continual analysis of all the lies, as well as observations on the tactics by these first rate internet assasains.

I have made some brief comments in regard to the tactics of the terrorist at the lapdog site a couple of days ago and I bring them to your attention again:

Lie about the leadership of BCA by pretending that it is a one man show. This lie was exposed completely not only by their own inconsistencies, doctored documents, and deceptions, but later by the BCA statement. Also, make up lies about what Doug Phillips said to make to him look really, really mean. Appeal to every woman who has ever been abused, by making up stories that nobody who knows this guy believes, and for which there are absolutely no witnesses whatsoever (because you can't witness fantasies that take place in a bitter woman's mind). This allows you to emotionally manipulate the type of people who believe what the National Enquirer says. Also, stay away from facts, but borrow words like "misogynist" from the radical feminists movement to rally every disgruntled person available. Also, pretend to reveal secret information about the family life (from the times they had you in the home and were showing kindness to you) so you can publicly vomit on a woman you hate with every fiber in your body---Beall Phillips. Then ridicule an entire congregation of women by making them look like brainless lemmings.

It seems that Mr. Metzler is starting to agree with what we have been saying all along. My guess is others are starting to see the light too.

Stay tuned

Stay tuned...
S. J. will be working late into the night to bring you some initial thoughts about Jennifer Epstein's latest entry in her ongoing slander campaign against BCA.

S. J. "Now I am REALLY fed up"

Monday, December 4, 2006

“Church” According to Jennifer

Charles Fisher of Ministry Watchman and Jennifer Epstein of the Biblically Excommunicated Epsteins continue to question the legitimacy of Boerne Christian Assembly, its leadership, and specifically Doug Phillips.

Jennifer and Mark under the name Jackson acknowledge multiple elders present during their counseling sessions with the men and women of Boerne Christian Assembly. Jennifer and Mark hide the multiple signatures to the “Guidelines for Accountability” document they doctored. In fact, at one point their behavior was so extreme that a shepherd from a nearby congregation who also had counseled this family strongly advised Doug Phillips to get a court restraining order for his physical protection, a recommendation he declined. Multiple elders/pastors from multiple churches have counseled them regarding their sin, excommunication, repentance, and restoration. And the Epsteins themselves were happy to attend, acknowledge, and submit to the ecclesiastical leadership of Boerne Christian Assembly for five years, until they were biblically confronted for sin and held accountable for their actions. Then, the legitimacy of the “church” was questioned.

Jennifer has some thoughts about “Church” which she offers as part of her “ministry”:

Thursday, June 01, 2006
The Old Paths
Church was where you found Christians on the Lord's Day, Rather than in the garden, on the creek bank, on the golf course, Or being entertained somewhere else.

Saturday, May 27, 2006
Character Treasures
For church right now, our family is watching SM Davis videos.

Sunday, February 26, 2006
Weekly Recipe: Cabbage Kugel
This is one of our family's favorites, which we had for Sunday Dinner after our home church this morning!

Now, apparently for the Epsteins, “church” is staying at home with family and watching videos – no elders at all. Though Jennifer encourages returning to “the old paths” including attending Church (one can only assume she is speaking of a biblically constituted church with actual office holders) apparently that sort of encouragement is for others. Antinomian, unaccountable, independence is apparently “what [Jen] wish[es] an older woman would have shared with [her] when [she] was younger.”

Consideration:

Do we really think so little of the Church of Jesus Christ? Has God not established the organized church with authority and oversight? When those reporting for Ministry Watchman are willing to propagate a lie as an introduction to Charles Fisher’s article, and Jennifer Epstein’s own words expose her hypocritical standard, why should we believe she is truthful about anything? Why is the excommunication by a lawfully constituted Church, the unanimous censure of the Epsteins by its members, and the counsel of multiple elders in multiple assemblies rejected for an inconsistent, excommunicated lying woman’s pottage of bitterness? Are we that gullible?

Appeal:

Epsteins, please repent and turn to the Lord. Acknowledge your rebellion, repent of your ways, model character in humility to your family, and be restored.

Signed,

Sniffin

I'm Confused

Fallacy Slayer is having a hard time understanding what to believe when it comes to the Epstein's allegations. For example, Jennifer Epstein alleges that Doug Phillips is a tyrant and a leader of a cult because he held her to account for her gross sins. Sins such as "habitual dishonesty and lying, for railings and reviling against both her husband and church authorities, for cruelty, gossip, and attempted division of the brethren" as well as "novel and unbiblical variation of the doctrine of sinless perfectionism." So what Fallacy Slayer wants to know is why is Jennifer Epstein praising Doug Phillips on her blog of Monday, September 25, 2006

Those Who Confront Ligonier

"Doug Phillips, who was my elder for several years, taught me that God’s Word addresses every situation in life, but that rather than looking for a single
verse to support our "beliefs," we must look at the whole counsel of God to
determine precisely what God wants us to do and how we are to live our daily
lives "


I read this statement on her blog and it seems to me she is praising her former elder for teaching her sound doctrine. Doesn't sound like a cult to me?

A former VF intern who is sick of all the lies

"Doug Phillips makes good money. He can afford to pay people and pay them generously. But he evidently works hard at keeping all his money. One of the ways he does so is by oppressing the workman and not paying him. That takes some incredible arrogance for him to think that he's so special — such royalty — that people should work for him for free."Frank Vance

"As a former VF intern and someone who know Doug Phillips character (which is above reproach), as well as the character of the "Jackson's" (which is one of lying, gossip, rumor spreading, division, and malicious hatred) I can say for a fact that this claim is nothing but a pack of lies. Doug Phillips is a very generous man, and anyone who knows him or has worked for him (as I have) will tell you that. If you want the truth, why not go to the source instead of listening to an excommunicated couple who has a long history of lying and divisive behavior. "

A former VF intern who is sick of all the lies

Let Facts Be Submitted to a Candid World

Well folks, I thought it would be good to review the facts again before we get the next installment of lies from Blind Ministry Watchman because it appears their binoculars are a little fuzzy. Again, to reinterate here are the facts of the matter:

1. Ministry Watchman received and published the reports of Mark and Jennifer Epstein, a couple excommunicated for numerous sins including gross unrepentant lying, with no attempt to contact the local church before writing their article. They assumed the guilt of the local church and the innocence of the excommunicated. In so doing they broke the law of God.

2. Ministry Watchman lied to the world about their attempt to give an opportunity to respond prior to publication of their article. Exodus 20:16

3. Ministry Watchman has broken the law of God by falsely claiming Doug Phillips "counseled" Ligonier Ministries in their lawsuit against Frank Vance. Exodus 20:16

4. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by bringing accusations against elders without witnesses in violation of 1 Timothy 5:19

5. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by claiming that Doug Phillips acted independently in excommunicating the Epstein's. Exodus 20:16

6. Ministry Watchman has proclaimed that they are antinomian by arguing that they are not bound by the law of God when it comes to holding themselves to the same standard it seeks to hold Doug Phillips to.

7. Ministry Watchman actively deceived Christians by presenting an email that looked like it was from VF.

Read the statement at www.boernechristianassembly.org

Fallacy Slayer

More Rage from the Heathen

Jennifer Epstein and the Blind Ministry lapdog group keep on spreading more lies. For example, they keep on claiming the Phillips family doesn't pay their helpers. Where did Frank Vance and Charles Fisher get this information from? None other than a proven lier by the name of Jennifer Epstein because anyone else who actually knows the family would never say such a thing! Also, they keep talking about "numerous others" who haven't been paid? Again, I ask where do these people get there information? Jennifer Epstein is an excommunicated women who has a proven track record of lying.

As I have stated in another post, their strategy has been this: Lie about the leadership of BCA by pretending that it is a one man show. This lie was exposed completely not only by their own inconsistencies, doctored documents, and deceptions, but later by the BCA statement. Also, make up lies about what Doug Phillips said to make to him look really, really mean. Appeal to every woman who has ever been abused, by making up stories that nobody who knows this guy believes, and for which there are absolutely no witnesses whatsoever (because you can't witness fantasies that take place in a bitter woman's mind). This allows you to emotionally manipulate the type of people who believe what the National Enquirer says. Also, stay away from facts, but borrow words like "misogynist" from the radical feminists movement to rally every disgruntled person available. Also, pretend to reveal secret information about the family life (from the times they had you in the home and were showing kindness to you) so you can publicly vomit on a woman you hate with every fiber in your body---Beall Phillips. Then ridicule an entire congregation of women by making them look like brainless lemmings.

Fallacy Slayer

Frank Vance is Whining Again

Frank Vance is whining again over at Blind Ministry Watchman about the fact that this site censored his comments in regard to the Epstein's house being out of order and claiming we don't like free speech. Well, if truth be told they have been censoring several of our comments. So because we believe in free true speech we started this site to get the other side of the story out to those people who are tired of all the lies coming from MW and Jennifer Epstein. There's nothing stopping Frank Vance from posting his comments on his site. If they weren't shutting down all our comments they might have an argument. Well, fair is fair, and we have no intention of giving the terrorists at MW more of an opportunity to spread lies here, where they have made it abundantly clear that they are not only going to cover their sin, but block any truthful comments.

Also, it appears that for almost half a week they have had a block out on diverse comments, and only now that they have been exposed for their hypocrisy are whining about "a lack of a level playing" field.

Please read Snifinitout's response to Frank Vance entitled: The Fruit of the Womb-Children Evidence Discipleship They Receive.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we are dealing with anonymous assassins, who don't interview people they slander, who pick on women, who have been caught in dead lies, who have conspired to deceive and then who act like babies when they are not allowed to do the very thing that they do to everyone else. Amazing---they block people with the truth from speaking on their site, and then they complain. Terrorists, who refuse to let others talk? Now demanding to use other people's forums to continue their inconsistencies and lies? Amazing!

Here is my recommendation: Why don't you guys just keep having conversations with yourself and your multiple personalities. I believe Jennifer and Mark have now logged in under a collective seventeen personalities. How's that for integrity.

Fallacy Slayer

Submitted to Ministrywatchman.com

Morning folks,
TRUST BUT VERIFY proves nothing more than that the folks trying to smear innocent people have done their homework.
Notice they are not (as they claim) interested in dealing with church issues. They are happy with nothing less than smearing every facet of Doug, Beall, and BCA's life public or private.

(I say they because it is my opinion that most if not all of the anonymous comments here on MW against BCA are the "Jacksons" or their "friends"

First we had highly racist comments a few days ago about their friends being the "help," now we are reaching and stretching to make connections between friends that aren't members of BCA and don't live around here. As far as I know the Chanceys aren't even Baptists. So other than vicious gossip and slander I fail to see what Matt's blog or the skin color of Doug's friends has to do with the "Jacksons'" excommunication.

This smacks of Hillary Clinton's scorched earth politics, NOT honest investigation or inquiry.

Jezebel and whore.....was never used. (gasp) There. I said it. NEVER used. All we are seeing is Mr. Fisher,the Jacksons et al. have been searching the net for a few months collecting material that is negative about VF, and Doug P. The Jezebel accusation isn't even original and was just as baseless on November 14th as it is today. It was first leveled by another excommunicant rebel with no witnesses to back it up.

TBV said ""Jezebel," why not also "whore?"" this is known as a non-sequitur . Just because something "feels" right or "seems" right does not mean that it holds up to scrutiny.

Just serving up a helping of truth with breakfast.

S.J.

"In case you're checking I'm ...still fed up!"

Ps. Frank nobody is limiting your free speech. You're still posting here (Miniature Watchdog) quite freely!

Sunday, December 3, 2006

A question from Pooh's Think

Earlier we received the following comment from Michael Metzler who calls Pooh's Think home

Michael Metzler said...

"Thank you for providing a link to this statement of mine, which is taken a little bit out of context. I'm not used to my opponents providing judicious links to my material, which would typically destroy their intended libelous misquoting. But let me get this straight: in your desire to defend your friends at BCA (a noble desire before you have enough evidence), are you going to attempt to defend Ligonier Ministries? That would certainly be an interesting task now that that story has come to a near end and a verdict has clearly been rendered on the world wide web. It certainly would not lend any credence to your more specific concern here. I’m truly curious what you would say about this. I’m sorry if you have addressed this already; I have not yet read everything you have written here.Thanks,Michael Metzler www.poohsthink.com"


S.J. responds

Michael,
There are several things I want to address in your comment. First is the assertion that here at Still Fed Up we are defending our friends at BCA "before we have enough evidence". Michael the evidence is in. BCA has spoken to the case of the Epsteins. BCA is a legitimately constituted church and as such it is the duty of Christians to take the side of legitimate authority over and against slanderous rebels who refuse to hear instruction.


Here at Still Fed Up we presume duly constituted churches are telling the truth and that excommunicants with a reputation for lying (See paragraphs 4, 5, and 6 of the BCA statement) need to repent.

Not the other way around.

When you read BCA's website they could not have been clearer or more charitable about the facts.

WRT your question, I can't help but feel once the dust has settled in this case and Ministry Watchman has been shown to be harboring liars and publishing false reports, it will call into question their word on other things.


I hope this clears things up for you.

S.J.

Why Do the Heathen Rage?

Well, ladies and gentleman we have been promised by Blind Ministry Watchman that on Monday there's going to be "a lot more" of the story regarding the Jackson Family coming all in an attempt to take down Phillips. All this proves is that Mark and Jennifer Epstein are acting with such vengeance towards the only people who ever tried to love them and hold them to account for what BCA called "gross sin." Their strategy: You can't take down the average family in the pew, or even those members of the church session who are less known. What you have to do is attack the person best known. In this case: target Doug and Beall Phillips. That's right, not only Doug, but Beall--a mother and homemaker to eight children who opened her home and her life to Jennifer Epstein- she must be publicly crucified by the excommunicated couple.


None of this surprises me. It is exactly what the Bible says such people will do. To reiterate again, the "Jackson" couple were lawfully excommunicated for lying. They are just going to keep on raging given the fact that they have been marked as heathen and publicans by BCA. So let them rage. This issue really is a settled one ever since BCA issued their statement on the matter regarding the Jackson Family. In fact, this issue has been settled for almost two years. Two years! According to BCA, the Jackson's have been trying to black mail the leadership ever since. So now that they were not able to divide the local community they have joined hands with other disgruntled, unaccountable renegades in the hope that they will be able to unite behind their computers and bring down Doug Phillips--and Beall, mother of eight children too.


Their strategy has been this: Lie about the leadership of BCA by pretending that it is a one man show. This lie was exposed completely not only by their own inconsistencies, doctored documents, and deceptions, but later by the BCA statement. Also, make up lies about what Doug Phillips said to make to him look really, really mean. Appeal to every woman who has ever been abused, by making up stories that nobody who knows this guy believes, and for which there are absolutely no witnesses whatsoever (because you can't witness fantasies that take place in a bitter woman's mind). This allows you to emotionally manipulate the type of people who believe what the National Enquirer says. Also, stay away from facts, but borrow words like "misogynist" from the radical feminists movement to rally every disgruntled person available. Also, pretend to reveal secret information about the family life (from the times they had you in the home and were showing kindness to you) so you can publicly vomit on a woman you hate with every fiber in your body---Beall Phillips. Then ridicule an entire congregation of women by making them look like brainless lemmings.

Of course, BCA dealt handily with the Epstein/MW swill. An entire congregation confirms that Jennifer and Mark are liars under censure. Jennifer brought allegations and revillings against innocent women like Beall Phillips and other families in the local church. Can you believe that they would go after a man's wife?? Then again we are not dealing with any old couple. We are dealing with a couple so bitter that they have spent two years lying, blackmailing, and rallying as many malcontents as they could to their cause to exact vengeance. Further, MW has proven they can't be trusted by declaring so many false and defamatory statements that we now have a track record by them that everything they say has to be called into question. Read the Press release for a summary of the many reasons everything the Jackson's say is COMPLETELY false.


Fallacy Slayer

Another former VF intern weighs in

Hot off the presses I received this testimony from another former VF intern.
S.J.
---------------

I too as a former VF intern want to take this opportunity to weigh in concerning "Not that gullible", or should I say Mrs. Epstein's request to weigh in concerning this situation. I was attending BCA during the time of the Epstein's excommunication, and observed on many occasions their divisive and lying ways. The BCA statement is true - there was indeed a plurality of leadership, and the excommunication was far from the "kangaroo court" that the Epsteins and their crowd want you to believe. What I found to be most disgusting of all though is the vitriolic hatred, cruelty, and lies that the Epsteins spewed and have continued to spew at those that sought to help them through prayer, untold hours of counseling, and that loved them enough to confront them when they were wrong.

Signed

Another former VF intern

The Fruit of the Womb – Children Evidence the Discipleship They Receive

(Commentary on Even if the Epsteins are the Jacksons....why mention their children?)

"Ministers and ecclesiastical leaders inevitably produce followers who emulate the behavior of their leaders." Frank Vance

"Mothers and Fathers inevitably produce children who emulate the behavior of their parents." Sniffinitout

Accusation was hurled at Ian and Sniffinitout for their willingness to expose the sins of the Epsteins and not sit silently by while lies, claims of innocence, slander, mischaracterization, and venom was spewed unchallenged.

Reference to Jennifer Epstein's own article revealing Tim Dick's inconsistencies and lack of biblical discipleship or discipline for his son in the midst of his open sin, and comparing it to the actions of Natasha Epstein (Jennifer's daughter) as evidence of similar neglect in the Epstein household, according to their own reported standard, was viewed as "[a]pples and oranges comparisons".

Referencing such neglect was stated to be a "below-the-belt punch" and an "uncharitable attack".

Not any portion of the article: Even if the Epsteins are the Jacksons....why mention their children? attacks Natasha, ridicules her, or intimates a mean-spirited tone. Quoting Natasha's own words may not be flattering, this certainly is true. But, this is reality and reality is what must be dealt with.

While the Epsteins do not head a Multi-million dollar ministry, they are seeking to gain a position of credibility and honor in the eyes of the public. They are playing the role of poor, wounded, innocent sheep, which have done all they know how to do to just keep things together. And, they've linked up with an organization whose title is "Ministry Watchman." Seems one ought to come to the table with some rather stout credentials and credibility to be able to discern, and reveal supposed tyrants. This is what the Epsteins hope to do as they play their part as "Watchmen." But, they have not been successful as watchmen in their own home. What should lead us to believe they are capable of watching over anyone else?

"None of the BCA clique care one wit for Natasha" Frank Vance

Boerne Christian Assembly's statement speaks for them on this one:



Recognizing that church discipline, like all godly administrations of discipline, is to be an act of love, the families of BCA have for nearly two years been praying for this couple and for their children. It is our heartfelt desire to see love return to their family, hope to their children, and lasting harmony between husband and wife.

As for Sniffit, here are my thoughts, and you can quote me:




I grieve over rebellion which has likely resulted from watching rebellion for years. Mark and Jennifer Epstein have obviously modeled anger, malicious activity towards one another and others, backbiting, fighting, and ultimately rebellion towards God for some time. It is sad to see the fruit of such activity, but we should expect nothing less.

I genuinely pray that God would intervene, prick the hearts of Mark, Jennifer, and Natasha to repent, reconcile with Him, and be restored to fellowship. I pray that the Epsteins other children will not be further spoiled by their parent's vindictive and revolting ways.

May God grant repentance, mercy and restoration. If they are not granted repentance, may they be judged in accordance with God's pleasure.

Frank Vance further stated: "The Epsteins have not always been Christians. Natasha wasn't always raised in a Christian home and taught the Christian faith."

This is true, and is likely true for many of us being exposed to these circumstances. However, this does not change the responsibility of the Epsteins or their children to walk in righteousness and conform to the law of God regardless of circumstances. Of the Epstein's own account, they have been part of some church for at least the last eleven years. The Epsteins have set themselves up as teachers. Jennifer herself states as much on her blog:


"In the spirit of Titus 2, what I wish an older woman would have shared with me when I was younger."


Seems one ought to teach what they are able to model themselves, which brings us back to the original article in question. Why is an expose on Tim Dick's son acceptable to discredit his ability and orthopraxy, but an expose in similar fashion regarding Mark, Jennifer, and Natasha is distasteful and uncharitable? We all agree the circumstances themselves are horrible. The reason for the exposure is to reveal the Epsteins lack of credibility, it's that simple.

If your family was falling apart, if your children were in rebellion, if your daughter was in the midst of sin and proud of it, where would your attention be focused? Where would your energy be spent?

It is indeed obvious that Natasha has been wounded. Modeling further rebellion will certainly not help Natasha embrace reality, submit to authority, or reconcile to God.

May God grant repentance.

Signed,
Sniffinitout

Still fed up

Yes sports fans, you found us. Pull up a chair and help me welcome the newest addition to the Still Fed UP team.

His name is Fallacy Slayer and he has a penchant for asking tough questions.

In case you are wondering I'm

STILL FED UP

S.J.
----------------------

Inquiring Minds Want to Know?

How many Pseudonyms is Jennifer Epstein using over at Ministry Watchman and here on THIS. site? My count is about 15, but I could be wrong. I also find it really interesting that Jennifer Epstein the "Holy Crusader of Truth" conveniently alluded to the story on Ministry Watchman on her blog by stating:

"His friend and fellow Christian celebrity Doug Phillips, head of Vision Forum Ministries/Inc. and Boerne Christian Assembly, is facing some similar charges. Ministry Watchman has the story, which has generated a high volume of comments in a short time. Please read the account and pray for all involved, but especially the children."


So again as to the "high volume of comments" in a short time Jen, I want to know how many pseudonyms are you using to make most of those comments?

Also, just to be clear Fallacy Slayer is praying for the Epstein's, praying that they will REPENT and seek restitution against those they have slandered and harmed.

Signed
Fallacy Slayer

The Sniff-meister weighs in.

Lies, Lies, Lies

LIES – Yep, that's a sin (Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Ex 20:16)



Let's define what it is so we don't get confused:

A criminal falsehood; a falsehood uttered for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth. Fiction, or a false statement or representation… To utter falsehood with an intention to deceive, or with an immoral design… To exhibit a false representation; to say or do that which deceives another, when he has a right to know the truth, or when morality requires a just representation…(Webster's 1828 Dictionary)



Well, Jennifer and the ministry brokentimepieceman won't be able to claim sinlessness for this six-month period…



In the opening of Fisher's article at mysterywatchmaker, Fisher claims that Doug Phillips offered behind-the-scenes counsel [to] Ligonier Ministries in its unbiblical lawsuit against Christian blogger, Frank Vance.


The formal statement offered by the Board of Directors for Vision Forum Ministries is explicit:



"one stated impetus for the article was the charge that Doug was involved in "behind-the-scenes counsel of Ligonier Ministries" concerning their lawsuit against a blogger going under the name of Frank Vance. For the record, this statement is false. Neither Doug Phillips nor any member of the Vision Forum staff have ever knowingly communicated with Ligonier Ministries representatives concerning this lawsuit or any lawsuit." (Letter from Vision Forum Board Members)



Conclusion:

Doug Phillips never, never, never, counseled with Ligonier Ministries regarding the Frank Vance law suit.
Charles Fisher has knowingly or unknowingly misrepresented facts.
Charles Fisher was not interested in obtaining the truth as he did not once enquire with Boerne Christian Assembly regarding their position:
"Accusations have been received and disseminated against a duly constituted Christian assembly without adequately consulting with the church leadership and with complete disregard for the biblical pattern for conflict resolution and the proper respect for the local church as required in Scripture." (Board)

Charles Fisher purposely sought to deceive his reading audience by declaring he invited comment from Doug Phillips – his email was sent to 11 minutes (yes, eleven) before posting and disseminating his article.
If Charles Fisher lies from the very preface of his article, attempting to pad his case, what reason do you have to believe any element of his article is truthful?


" Guidelines for Accountability"
The link above, which is the copy the Epsteins themselves offer, over at watchbreaker, has "Oct. 2002" if the upper right-hand corner of the document. The Epsteins were excommunicated in the more recent period of February, 2005. That's three-years of "process"!



And what is due process? Let's look at Matthew 18, a biblical process:



Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (Matthew 18:15-17)



How did Boerne Christian Assembly handle this process?



1. The Leadership was consulted and invited into the conflict – the fault between husband and wife – Leadership counseled the couple (Matt. 18:15):

"Tremendous patience, longsuffering, and love were shown to the couple even in the face of violent railings, vicious accusations, cruelty and threats on their part directed at each other, other women at BCA, the families coming alongside of them in counsel and prayer, and the church leadership. The initial reason BCA intervened with this couple was to prevent their divorce in light of the husband's constant threats to divorce his wife."

2. One or two went to them (Matt. 18:16):

When confronted for sins, the wife insisted on a novel and unbiblical variation of the doctrine of sinless perfectionism to justify her claim that she had essentially not sinned in her home for close to half of a year. Over a period of years leading up to the excommunication, the elders of BCA and appointed families from the local church logged hundreds of hours counseling both the husband and wife in the Word of God, sometimes with signs of hope, and other times with none. At no time was inappropriate language leveled against the couple by leaders of BCA.

3. The couple was brought before the Church (Matt. 18:17)

The gradual and patient process involved counsel, appeals, confrontation, admonition, warnings, censure, discipline, and, ultimately, excommunication with the full consent of the church. As the final stage of a lengthy disciplinary process, the couple was brought before the church where they were admonished by the body, including men and women.



Conclusion:

1. Jennifer lied about the one man show, as S.J. offered in his math equation.

2. Jennifer misrepresented the plurality of leadership present in her doctored document

3. Jennifer lied about the lack of patience or time granted to her in the form of counseling

4. Jennifer misrepresented the breadth of counseling offered by number of people under the direction of the leadership

5. Jennifer misrepresented the leadership's address of Mark's sins

6. Jennifer continues to fester and lie about most of the circumstances surrounding her ongoing rebellion



Jennifer and her clan continue to claim this was a one man show. This was ramrodded through they say. Read the documents folks. Here the heart of the communication. Look at the period of time that lapsed from early counseling up to the excommunication. Does that sound impatient? Does that sound unloving? Does that sound uncaring?



Deal with the facts.

Signed,



Sniffinitout and Scoopinitup