Still Fed Up

Reading the Epstein's blog is like watching....

2007-05-23T05:21:00.000-07:00

New category created at Still Fed Up

2007-05-22T20:59:00.000-07:00

I will start a new category here in direct response to Jennifer's constant ongoing plea that someone please tell her the sins she committed.

While you gentle reader may not have enough supporting facts to substantiate my list of sins, Jen does.

I'm not asking you to take what I say on faith that my word is true. I'm asking you to believe Boerne Christian Assembly, Faith Presbyterian Church, Living Water Fellowship.

This blog is NOT here to retry Mark and Jen. Three Godly Churches have looked at the merits of the case and found the Epsteins "misleading" and in need of "true repentance".

So most of what is said under the category "Jen's sins" is for Jennifer's benefit. SHE knows what I'm saying is true.
(So do Mark and Natasha)

A final thought I'll try as best I can to differentiate between the sins that got her excommunicated and the laundry list she has created here on the blogosphere.

Just to get things rolling I'll end the post with a specific.

Doug never called Jen a Jezebel.
Didn't happen.
It's a lie.

Jen made the claim the day BCA told "it to the church" It was false then just like it was when she first posted it on Ministry Watchman.

This is why BCA rebuked her for "wrongfully manipulate(ing) facts and individuals" yet I don't expect any substantive change on her part because after all she was excommunicated for "habitually refusing to acknowledge sins when confronted for them"

S.J.

yes I'm Still Fed Up.

A Blast from the Past

2007-05-20T07:24:00.000-07:00

This was originally posted on December 7, 2006, but since Jen, Corrie, Lynn, and Cynthia don't have a very good memory I have decided to repost this important post dealing with the issue of how Doug Phillips DID NOT break any pastoral confidences or the laws of Texas.

Jennifer Epstein’s Own Private Legal System

Fallacy back again….

What in the world is Jen talking about? BCA leaders breaking a “privileged” communication about Jen’s adultery? Oh please!!!. This is yet just another example of Jen Epstein—minister of propaganda—Internet Terrorist—openly lying to the general public.

Fallacy Slayer wants to know if Jennifer has any idea what a “privilege” is? Obviously she is not dealing with any “privilege” in the Bible, since no such privilege exists. In fact, the Bible requires ongoing sins to be dealt with (Which is what BCA did). If people don’t deal with them, the people are to be brought before the church and corrected for their sins (Which is what BCA did). If they won’t hear the church, they are to be kicked out. (Matt 18) (Which is what BCA did).
Did they really think they could go to many witnesses for counsel, spill the beans of their sordid family crisis, both continue to sin on the very subject matter related to the adultery, and then prevent the leaders that they went to from holding them accountable for addressing the very issues? Fallacy Slayer is beginning to see some problems… Are they suggesting that church discipline may not involve addressing relevant facts? (By the way, can you imagine the kicking and screaming they would have done if they had been disciplined by BCA and no facts had been presented to the congregation---you can’t have it both ways Jen!)

Fallacy Slayer is going to ask again if this just another example of an Epstein legal threat? Yes, the same Epstein’s that hypocritically whined for months on the internet about how wrong it is for Christians to sue Christians, after they had themselves threatened leaders at BCA (see BCA document) with legal threats and then attempted extortion. News Flash for all those who may have forgotten: The Epstein’s NO longer have the protection of 1 Corthinians 6 as Excommunicants.
Fallacy Slayer and the others have been pointing these issues out for the last week and a half. However, over at the Blind Ministry Lapdog of the Epstein’s site they won’t even allow discussion of these issues.

Well obviously, now they are claiming that some supposed legal right has been violated—a clergyman-communicant privilege. Kind of like the attorney/client privilege. The problem here is that THEY DON’T HAVE THE FIRST IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! They are literally making things up. Nobody has a “copyright” or “ecclesiastical privilege” to get counsel from a group of church leaders and then never, ever have their sins exposed if they continue in them.

You can do the google searches for yourself folks. Fallacy Slayer did. (Just like Jennifer does when she talks like a lawyer on her site) Here is what you will discover—the clergy privilege (where it even applies) prevents ordained ministers like Roman Catholic Priests from violating the rules of their Church by being compelled to testify on confidential matters, it does not prevent them from testifying. Also, it applies to a secular court, not a church. Also, it never even applies when there are multiple people present or exposed to the facts.

Is Jennifer suggesting that she or Mark were alone with Phillips and that they revealed this “big secret” to no one but him. This is really, really hard to believe. It is especially hard to believe given the fact that all the evidence, which she is in and she has revealed to indicate that there were always multiple parties involved in meetings with the two of them. That is what the documents (some of which have now been revealed to be dishonestly doctored by Jennifer to mislead people into thinking there was only one person) indicate! (See some of Fallacy Slayer’s other post for discussions on this point) Let’s just make sure we keep dealing with the actual facts folks, and not the fantasies of Jennifer Epstein.

Let's not forget that she and Mark both told the information about her adultery to the following people:

Bob Welch
Doug and Beall Phillips
Bob and Debbie Sarrat
Mo and Amelia Gill
Richard and Reba Short
Rick and Joni Huber

And that's just for starters.

Fallacy Slayer would also like to point out that beyond this absurd privilege claim is that fact that Jennifer is her own worst enemy. She cannot control herself, so she spreads information about her own adultery to hundreds and hundreds of people---now thousands---through her letters and now the Internet.

Folks, isn’t it clear that we are dealing with bitter people that will do just about anything for vengeance? Fallacy Slayer thinks it is VERY CLEAR!!!!!

So, just to conclude this post, Doug Phillips didn't break any laws of "Constitutional Due Process" like Mark claims on his website.

I’m just the Fallacy Slayer

Jennifer Epstein--Railer

2007-05-18T16:39:00.000-07:00

While other moms are busy keeping home and caring for her children, she is hunting Doug Phillips, holding publicity stunts and abusing her children by making them break the law with her.

Jennifer Epstein is a railer and her obsession is taking a very sick turn.

Right about now, everybody who has been following her trail of never-ending lies, publicity stunts, and very strange behavior knows that something is not right with Mrs. Epstein.

Do you remember this railer's account of the bed of adultery?

With the same shameless, brazen spirit of self-righteousness with which she wore her binoculars and flaunted authority in Arlington during her most recent public expedition, Jennifer Epstein bragged about her right to refuse to honor her husbands weeping, crying appeals to get rid of the bed of her adultery...the bed that reminded him every day that she had lied, and committed adultery in and then demanded he submit to her repentance by allowing her to keep the bed of adultery as a centerpiece of their home.

Something is deeply, deeply wrong with Mrs. Epstein.

Living Waters Fellowship knows that.
Faith Presbyterian Church knows that.
Boerne Christian Assembly Knows that.
The San Antonio Home School organization knows that.
A supreme court justice who fired her co-conspirator for helping her break the law knows that.
Vision Forum knows that.

Except for three very angry women (Corrie, Cynthia, and Lynn)--and the various dozens of personalities under which Jennifer Epstein authors her own self-congratulations society---everybody knows that.

And now this feminist, turned habitual liar, turned accuser of dozens, turned self-appointed prophet of righteousness---is behaving like a stalker.

Her credibility may be gone forever---but, ladies and gentlemen ever since this website was started we have been getting reports from many people who are afraid to stand up to Jennifer Epstein for fear of her family's instability and rage. However, these dear people have told us the truth of what really goes on in the Epstein household. Everything from Mark being admitted to the hospital for suicidal tendencies, and Jennifer not going to visit him, to Mark being admitted to the hospital for alcohol poisoning and being told by his family to take a cab home from the hospital because Jennifer was out of town and this just within the last few weeks.

What is going on here? Folks we need to pray for the Epstein’s, but we also need to hold them accountable for their evil deeds of darkness. They can’t play victim and also attack dog and expect us to feel sorry for them. Just read Mark’s latest dribble.

Ladies and gentleman, Jennifer Epstein has major problems and it is not Doug Phillips. It is SIN. Jen needs to repent for her antics and take the Log out of her own eye before she starts warning everyone about others. Jennifer has gone to great lengths to try and harm the reputation of Vision Forum by sending out emails warning people not to do business with them. She sent out an email to Home School leaders stating:

We would ask that you carefully consider the ramifications of your organization’s relationship with Doug Phillips, through his serving as a speaker at your conferences or otherwise, and the great harm that it could cause to not only your organization’s reputation, but to Christian home education in general, by promoting him and giving him a platform to advance his extremist views.

But then goes on to say that she went to the Arlington Book Fair because:

I enjoy attending home school conferences. It’s always a good learning experience, so I’d like to give a report on a home school conference that I attended this past weekend in Arlington, Texas. The Arlington Book Fair is a large home school conference with several interesting speakers, one of which was Doug Phillips. I credit Doug with teaching me many valuable things.

So Jen lies to Home School leaders saying that by having Doug speak “great harm it would cause to the organization” but Jen now states that Doug “[has taught her] many valuable things” and she wanted to go and hear him speak?

In addition, she has worked with white supremacists by commenting on their blogs and telling lies about Doug Phillips. Then she denied that she worked with Harry Seabrook. Mark goes so far as to say that Badonicus was shut down because Harry Seabrook didn’t like him attacking the Epstein’s. However, he doesn’t try and say that Harry’s bigotry is wrong, just Badonicus’ bigotry. They both continue to defend Harry Seabrook and his lies that his website was “hacked.” Matt Chancey proved that his site wasn’t hacked and Harry knows it wasn’t hacked. Otherwise, Harry would sue Matt Chancey.

Check out the “thank you” letter written by Mark Epstein to Harry Seabrook and posted on Little Geneva:

Dear Harry, I publicly commend you for your stand for justice. This is a foundational principle of a godly government — whether civil or church. Regardless of what anyone thinks of my past marital situation, whether I should have divorced Jennifer, or any other concerns, Christ’s sacrificial death (on our behalf) is the basis for the imputation of righteousness to each of us
Posted December 23, 2006

You see Jennifer and Mark will work with anyone in order to destroy Doug Phillips.

She has worked with a staff attorney at the Alabama Supreme Court who was terminated for his “vile schemes” which could cost him losing his bar license at a minimum. She and her husband have libeled Brad Phillips and Persecution Project by saying they are guilty of “genocide” of innocent Sudanese children and Mark even alleged a government cover up!! What is up with these people?

Jennifer and Mark keep on talking about the fact that Doug Phillips is nothing but a sensationalist. Well, folks I would like to ask you all a question.

Is this comment from Mark not “sensational?”

In his article, “Questions and Lies,” published on January 2, 2007 on www.ultimatetruth.wordpress.com, Mark Epstein wrote, “If the US Government refused to acknowledge the truth concerning Arafat’s documented murderous behavior, thereby allowing the media to “spin” him as a peacemaker (let’s not forget his Nobel Peace Prize), then what makes anyone think the US Government is going to share information with the local Virginia authorities about a small time Christian ministry leader’s [Brad Phillips’] alleged criminal activity[genocide of innocent Sudanese children] – particularly if the information was inadvertently obtained during the course of a classified operation?”

What about this comment from Mark where he tries to Black Mail Doug Phillips:

Doug, allow me to make it perfectly clear that this issue of excommunication is not going to go quietly away…[Y]ou [have] opened the door for public discussion of your behavior…If I do not hear from you by then, I will assume that you desire I take this issue elsewhere…[Y]ou stand to lose far more than I do….Doug, you know it only takes the touch of a button to find yourself in a similarly embarrassing situation as R.C. Sproul, Jr. Ask your IT folks how easy it is to reduce the … correspondence between us to Adobe [Acrobat] files, and then ask yourself if you want Jennifer’s letter of May 2005 seen side-by-side with your response…

And what about this outrageous statement by Jennifer:

“Our BCA experience feels like we were raped.”

So the Fallacy Slayer is asking now who is the sensational writer? Mark alleges government cover-ups of Brad Phillips, he threatens to black mail Doug Phillips, and his wife says that Doug Phillips and BCA “spiritually raped” her. Let’s not forget that Mark and Jen voluntarily joined BCA. No one demanded that they become members. They did it on their own free will. Now that they were held accountable by the very church that they agreed to submit to they want to blame it on BCA and specifically Doug Phillips. There’s no basis in fact for Jen to assert “spiritual rape” except that it makes great propaganda for all the bitter women out there who don’t like to be under authority.

These people are nuts folks!!

Further, she has lied to Kate Felmey by telling her she didn’t leave a message on her phone when in fact Kate recognized her voice on her answering machine once she put up the video from Arlington! See www.Kateschosen.wordpress.com for the details.

So ladies and gentleman, boys and girls of all ages, Mark and Jennifer Epstein’s have serious problems, but they need to cease and desist from their antics regarding Doug Phillips and humble themselves before the Lord and seek His forgiveness.

If Mark and Jennifer will do this I know the Lord will forgive them and so will BCA.

I quote from the Faith PCA letter

“The elders of BCA stand willing to meet with you to hear your expression of true repentance.”

Jen’s entire wordpress site is an example of the Epstein’s railings (look up the definition folks) as they bring such charges as spiritual rape, murder, and ecclesiastical tyranny against BCA and Doug Phillips. Why would anyone at BCA or the world for that matter seriously consider the Epstein’s willingness to show repentance and be restored in the face of such open and ongoing rebellion.

Until then, I’m just the Fallacy Slayer

The Lady in Red

2007-05-17T17:36:00.000-07:00

Well, sports fans, Fallacy Slayer back with a Newsflash: Yes, folks, the "lady in the red dress" that Jennifer calls a "liar" is none other than Beverly McCord -- longtime home school leader in Texas.

And surprise, surprise, this time the "lady of ill-repute" is not sporting red, but is none other than Jennifer Epstein.

Let's summarize a few points from Jennifer Epstein's latest "red dress" video and thread.

First, Jen claims that "Beverly is a liar." Yet "Texas Home School leader" has revealed to us that the lady who Jennifer Epstein claims to be liar-liar-red-dress-on-fire is none other than one of the founders of the home school movement in Texas and one of its most respected leaders.

If you tell a Catholic that Mother Theresa was a tramp, you will probably get a blank stare. And if you tell a Texas home schooler who knows their history that Beverly McCord's is a "deceiver," you should expect a similar response.

Bad form, Jen. Your lady in red has turned out to be one of the beloved matrons of Texas' home school legacy.

Nice try. You're not fooling anyone.

Second, Jen asserts that Ruth Perez is guilty of spreading a "long list of falsehoods" about her. Drum roll, folks -- Jen's ID'd another liar!

Wow, Jen's got some special gift! Once again, folks, this claim stretches the imagination. Gavino and Ruth have been laboring in the FEAST vineyard for two decades (sound familiar?), and while I am sure that the Perez' are not perfect, their reputation as "deceivers" has never been raised by anyone that I know of -- other than Jen Epstein.

Hmm…either Jen's got some really uncanny knack for spotting liars (maybe it's those binoculars around her neck in the video that are helping her) that no one else can see, or, well --- she's the culprit.

Anyone -- whose last name is not Epstein -- care to come forward to back Jen up on the Pinocchio-Perez "lie" story?

I don't think so.

Third, Jen claims to Chris C. that Faith's statement -- "The elders of BCA stand willing to meet with you to hear your expression of true repentance" -- is "not what you think."

If it's now what Chris thinks, I think, Billy Bob Smob thinks, and everyone else who reads plains English thinks it means (namely, that: "The elders of BCA stand willing to meet with you to hear your expression of true repentance"), then what does this mean?

Is it another lie, Jen? Another hundred-and-fifty pound whopper? Did Faith lie to you and Mark when they wrote this letter you? Did they hand you a "long list of falsehoods" concerning BCA, just like Ruth Perez did concerning your FEAST episodes?

Speaking of the letter, Jen, in your "primary source" fervor, I have yet to see YOU produce the letter that Faith gave Mark and you following their meeting with BCA.

What happened to it, Jen? Did the letter conveniently "disappear" like the original Joe T. process server documentation?

Call me the gambler if you want, but I'd be willing to bet money that you've got it. And I think I'd win.

So why the uncharacteristic omission, Jen? Why don't you post the letter -- in full? You have called on BCA to do this, so why don't you beat them to the punch and prove all of the nay-sayers and "liars" wrong? What are you hiding from?

Oh, I forgot…it's not "what I think it is." The Faith PCA letter must be filled with just another pack of lies. I guess that the Faith PCA guys have gone the way of Ruth Perez, BCA, and everyone else. And I bet their elders' wives wear red dresses, just like that liar, Beverly McCord.

Oh, and while we're at, why don't we just throw Little Bear in with the lying scumbags too.

First, you tell us to praise LB on the home school conference trail; and then you later tell us he's a "coward?" Which is it, Jen?

Then, in your home school leader e-mail bomb, you write this of Doug and LB's relationship: "Doug retaliated against Little Bear by terminating their long friendship, and he even removed most, if not all, Mantle Ministries products from the Vision Forum catalog."

And yet Pastor Little Bear and his fellow Pastors inform us: "The pastors of Living Water Fellowship desire that it be known that no issue exists between Living Water Fellowship, Boerne Christian Assembly or its leadership."

Somebody's "lying" here, Sports Fans, and I am going to guess that Jen says it's not her. Sounds like a story we've heard before.

So, Jen, does Little Bear now need to start saving money to buy a bright red costume so that he can join Bev and the Gang as they lie to you and your family into the paddywagon?

This whole red dress "liar" mantra is straining my noggin, so let's wrap this one up.

Yes, folks, Beverly McCord is the one in the "red dress." And she and her husband, Kirk, started the Arlington Book Fair, the Texas Home School Coalition, and HOPE for Texas.

And while this couple has endeared themselves to home schoolers around the Lone Star State after twenty years of sacrificial service, now we learn that, after all this, they are, well, charlatans -- "liars" to be precise.

I guess that next we'll learn that the McCords didn't start THSC and Hope for Texas -- that's a lie too. We'll also probably learn that the McCords stole the Arlington Book Fair from some unsuspecting honest woman and then changed the "dress code" to "red."

Right now, we're one Whopper short a family-size Burger King meal, but I don't think we'll have to wait very long…

"Beverly is a liar, I am very sorry to say," quoth Jen.

Enough of this.

Here's my response:

"[Jen] is a liar, I am very sorry to say."

Until next time,

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer

Just in

2007-05-17T09:36:00.000-07:00

(I will have more time to possibly comment on this later, but I wanted the world at large to see the true perspective on the Epsteins by the home school world in Texas
S.J.)Swordbearer,

I submitted the comment below for publication to Jennifer Epstein's blog last night, and the moderator has chosen not to approve it. In light of this, I would appreciate if you might consider posting it on your blog.

I am not a fan of your forum, but neither am I fan of several newspapers that have published editorials I have written over the years. What's important to me is that folks who have embroiled themselves in this mess get a dose of perspective which takes into account the Texas home school landscape. And if Jennifer Epstein (or whomever is serving as moderator of her blog) won't publish my note, I thought that perhaps you might be willing to do so.

Thank you for considering my request.

For the honor of the King,
A Longtime Texas Home Schooler

*************************************************

To whom it may concern:

Last month, I received an e-mail from Mark and Jennifer Epstein which attacked the character of Doug Phillips, listing numerous charges against him.

After a bit of investigation, I learned of this blog and was troubled by what I discovered -- a great deal of bitterness from a couple who appear to be trapped in a tangled web of sin and self-deception.

Within a week or so of that time, I received a letter from Ruth and Gavino Perez of the FEAST organization, wherein the Ruth and Gavino defended Doug Phillips' character and sought to explain their own difficult dealings with the Epstein family.

Yesterday, I was made aware of this most recent post by Jennifer Epstein by some mutual home school leader friends in Texas. I must say that I was taken aback to see to what remarkable ends that this troubled couple has taken in their attacks against Doug Phillips and Vision Forum Ministries.

As someone who has been involved in home schooling in Texas since the early 1980's, there is much I could say, but I will try to keep my comments brief.

First of all, what readers to this blog should understand is that Kirk and Beverly McCord are among the pioneers of the home school movement in Texas. Their vision more than 20 years ago lead them to start three separate entities: the Arlington Book Fair (designed to offer books and resources to Texas' fledgling home school movement), the Texas Home School Coalition (a political action committee designed to protect the rights of Texans to home school), and HOPE for Texas (designed to offer how-to resources and other practical helps to Texas home educators). A lot has changed since the middle 1980s (including HOPE for Texas merging with THSC several years ago), but what has not changed is the esteem and respect in which home school leaders and families across Texas hold Kirk and Beverly McCord.

I remember distinctly the phone call more than 20 years ago when Beverly first called our home and requested that our family's name be added to the leadership roll of their Hearth and Home Ministries "Handbook for Texas Home Schoolers." Identifying yourself as a home school leader then was risky, as the Leeper v. Arlington Independent School District case was not yet settled, and yet Kirk and Beverly's vision was to provide a helpful resource to assist any family who had the courage to begin the process of home educating -- even if that meant prosecution.

Thankfully, due to the valiant efforts of the McCords, Shelby Sharpe, and others, the right to home school in Texas was secured when the Texas Supreme Court affirmed the Leeper decision in 1991.

The old "Hearth and Home" Handbook would later become the "HOPE for Texas" Handbook and now, more recently, it is being published by THSC -- all organizations that the McCords helped to organize. Kirk and Beverly's fingerprints can be found all over the home education saga in Texas; and someday, when the history books are written on Texas home schooling, their life testimony will be central to the story.

The McCords have endured many attacks over the years, but the recent public stunt by Jennifer Epstein as part of a coordinated campaign against Doug Phillips may well represent a low point -- not so much in terms of difficulty for the McCords, but in terms of the lowball tactics that were employed.

To be blunt: the posting of this video from the Arlington Book Fair is a real nadir. That Kirk and Beverly would be exploited in this way is simply unconscionable. In seeking to further their own ends through this PR stunt, the Epsteins have only further destroyed their credibility to all those who know the stature in which Kirk and Beverly are held by home schoolers both in Texas and around the country. The only way I could imagine that the Epsteins could bury themselves more in their own shame would be to have Mike Farris or Chris Klicka say on camera to police that the Epsteins have "harassed" home schoolers -- as Beverly does in the video clip.

Beyond the peerless testimony of the McCords, I should add that I have known Gavino and Ruth Perez down in San Antonio for many years, having visited with them at numerous THSC events as well as HSLDA leadership gatherings over a span of well over a decade; and I know their reputation to be upstanding in every way. So when I read their note putting the Epstein's character in perspective, nothing more needed to be said.

And now this stunt at the Arlington Book Fair with Kirk and Beverly? I do hope that this is the last of such shameful shenanigans by the Epsteins. This madness needs to come to an end.

As an aside, I should also mention the Bradrick family in this discussion. When they moved to Washington State a number of years ago, Texas lost one of its most important home school families. The Bradricks began home schooling here in Texas ever before the McCords and my family did, and they were among a core handful of families who pioneered the home school movement in the Lone Star State. In fact, way back when, the Bradricks (who then lived in nearby Garland) labored with the McCords at Arlington's very first book fair.

Now Jennifer Epstein has sought to criticize the character of Peter Bradrick, one of Michael and Susan's younger sons. By taking shots at the son of one of Texas' most respected home school families, the Epsteins are once again firing blanks.

Regarding Doug Phillips, I had the privilege of spending a few days with him personally long before he came to Texas when I visited Washington DC for one of HSLDA's annual Legislative Summits. At the time, Doug was leading the Congressional Action Program on Capitol Hill for HSLDA. I immediately struck a chord with both Doug and his wife, Beall, and I was delighted when God providentially lead them to Texas some time later to start Vision Forum.

Not only has my family greatly benefited from Doug's teachings and materials over the last several years (many of which sit on my shelf), but I can testify that his character has been affirmed by all those whom I have met who have known him personally -- including those who he once answered to -- including Chris Klicka of HSLDA.

I first met Chris Klicka more than 15 years ago when he spoke in Houston at a Greg Harris Seminar, and I have had the privilege of having dinner with home both in his home and mine on different occasions and most recently dialogued with him earlier this week. As someone who was Doug's former supervisor, he continues to hold Doug in the highest esteem. And while I do not formally write on Chris' or their behalf, the same goes for the rest of the HSDLA leadership. I know the confidence they expressed in Doug during his tenure at HSLDA which has remain unchanged through this recent attempt to discredit him by the Epsteins.

Having attended a number of THSC and HSLDA Leadership events starting in the mid-1990s, I have gained the acquaintance of numerous home school leaders from across the states. Since receiving the Epstein's letter attacking Doug Phillips in late April, I have spoken to many of these leaders. The response I have received from each one has almost been an echo: "We are praying that God will give grace to Doug's family through these senseless attacks and bring the Epsteins to repentance."

These conversations were had in the wake of Mark and Jennifer's e-mail broadcast. While I have not spoken with many leaders since this outlandish blog post, I can say with a great deal of confidence that once any longstanding home school leader sees the video debacle with Kirk and Beverly in the middle of it, that the outpouring of prayers for this faithful couple as well as for Doug and Beall Phillips will only increase -- and the Epsteins will only be brought to greater shame for their sins.

I am greatly grieved to see how the Epsteins have sought to ensnare others through their calculated attacks, and am I praying for the McCords -- and the Phillips especially -- during this time.

This being said, what comes to mind when I observe the Epstein's tactics is this: "Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein: and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him" (Proverbs 26:27).

As the Epsteins dig their pit deeper and deeper, I believe that they are digging their own spiritual grave, absent God's intervening grace.

Mark and Jennifer, please listen: it is time for you to soften your heart to God's spirit and repent before you bring greater judgment upon your own head.

For the honor of King,

A Longtime Texas Home Schooler

Jennifer why did you lie?

2007-05-17T09:13:00.000-07:00

Not that I'm suprised mind you.

Folks if you can't see a pattern by now then I can't convince you.
Jennifer is lying about BCA
Lying about Doug and Beall
Lying about the excommunication
Lying about Faith PCA

and the list goes on and on but now she is caught publically lying to Kate Felmey

Me: I have heard this voice (Jen’s) in the phone call I blogged about on my blog. I do not know why she would continue to deny it even after I have in GOOD FAITH trusted her to tell me the truth. I feel I have been lied to and manipulated in this situation, even when I have asked very pointed questions. Go ahead, attack my message which is one that is this: EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS MESS: QUIT LYING TO THE CHURCH and Bride of Christ.

and again Mrs. Felmey says

She has deceived not just me, but countless others now in this internet thing. Some will defend her until they look foolish (already has happened). Her defenders take her account as gospel. Who shoved the boy? Come on! The police were there, that’s no light issue. No, her defenders don’t stop for one moment to think that she is lying. “For all have sinned”, people. You want proof of your sin, Jen? You want proof, defenders of Jen? I have shown you her lies. You now have the responsibility to take it before the Lord, because being willingly ingnorant will not stand before Him.

Read it all here

Now Kate is Fed Up too

S.J.

Please stop by her blog @ kateschosen.wordpress.com and thank her for taking such a stron stand for truth.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

2007-05-15T20:17:00.000-07:00

( Editor's note:Since I received the folowing email tonight the comment was alllowed through on Jen's blog. I hope you who are commenting on Jens blog or interacting with her personally will read this, take it to heart, and exhort Jennifer to repent. - S.J.)

Mr. Swordbearer:

I submitted the comment appended below to Mrs. Epstein's blog, and they apparently have chosen to censor it. I believe my arguments are clear and cogent and my tone respectful, but they for whatever reason have not post it.

Given this fact, I would request that you consider sharing this note with your readers, as -- in my view -- what I have written gets down to the heart of the matter.

Respectfully,
Chris Crenwelge

MY SUBMISSION TO MRS. EPSTEIN's BLOG:

Dear Readers:

While there are myriad of issues swirling on this thread, I would like to strike at the fundamental issue at stake here.

Angela writes: "How long do you plan to hunt him down to confront him?"

Mrs. Epstein responds: "Angela, I have NEVER hunted Doug down, nor do I ever plan to. I went to see him once and I don't see anything wrong with attempting reconciliation — face-to-face — once."

With all due respect, the premise of both the question and answer are misplaced -- as is the premise of this blog: "Exposing Doug Phillips' Ecclesiastical Tyranny."

Mr. and Mrs. Epstein were excommunicated by Boerne Christian Assembly as a congregation -- not by Doug Phillips individually -- by a unanimous vote of the households represented.

The need for Mrs. Epstein to "personally reconcile" with Doug Phillips is a fraud. What is in order is for Mr. and Mrs. Epstein to repent and seek restoration with Boerne Christian Assembly.

Isolating Doug Phillips is nothing but a strategic ploy. Mr. Phillips is the head of a major public ministry and is thus the largest target on the playing field -- the biggest fish in the proverbial pond, so to speak; and the Epstein's attempts to single him out are nothing but strategic showmanship. The BCA Statement says it well:

"The decision to isolate and attack Doug Phillips, both as an elder and also as the head of a ministry unconnected to the local church, is reprehensible. It is a strategic tactic, the goal of which appears to be to confuse uninvolved third parties and to deflect attention from the real sin of the couple and the due process of accountability brought against them by a covenanting body that knows them very well and has walked with them for many years."

Mrs. Epstein and her supporters make much ado about reading the "primary source documents," and while I must readily confess that I don't assume Jennifer's testimony trustworthy (in fact, quite to the contrary), Mrs. Epstein makes my case for us herself in her "Formal Response to the Disciplinary Action," dated January 26, 2005.

Please carefully note that in Mrs. Epstein's response to her formal discipline Doug Phillips is NOT singled out personally, as the letter is addressed to FIVE MEN: "Doug, Bob, Mo, Richard and Rick."

Moreover, in her fifteen-page "defense," Mrs. Epstein levels charges concerning the wrongfulness of her discipline not merely at Doug Phillips' feet, but toward five couples: Doug and Beall Phillips; Bob and Debbie Sarratt; Mo and Amelia Gill; Richard and Reba Short; and Rick and Joni Huber. In her grand apologia, she carefully delineates charges out against each person in the above list, and from each party individually she adjures:

"I am requesting a public apology approved by me with specific details mentioned in the letter, both oral and written."

She concludes her letter with the following: "In addition to these public apologies, I further request that I be exonerated of all wrong doing and that all membership rights be reinstated."

Let me underscore: Mrs. Epstein does not request action to REPEAL her discipline to be taken by Doug Phillips individually, but by "Doug, Bob, Mo, Richard and Rick." Her letter is unmistakable and unequivocal -- and you can read it right here on her blog.

Further, while some time back Mrs. Epstein repeatedly sought to convince her readers that Faith PCA was seeking to help her and her husband personally "reconcile" with Doug Phillips, this was misleading. Faith PCA's statements address the issue as one between the Epsteins and BCA, and urge the Mr. and Mrs. Epstein to repent before the leadership -- not "reconcile" with Doug Phillips, the man:

"Thus, we admonish you [Mark and Jennifer] to return to the elders of Boerne Christian Assembly to express your true repentance with broken spirits and contrite hearts, including recognition that matters rightly belonging in the Church should not be aired in public via the Internet. This is wrong and hurtful to the whole of the Visible Church."

"The elders of BCA stand willing to meet with you to hear your expression of true repentance."

Thus, any debate about whether Mrs. Epstein should petition/chase down/stalk (fill in the word of your choice) Doug Phillips is inconsequential and confuses the core issue which is not the purported "Ecclesiastical Tyranny" of one man, but the discipline carried out by Boerne Christian Assembly.

And let's be clear:

the BCA Statement affirms this,

the Faith PCA statement affirms this, and

Mrs. Epstein's own words on who the controversy in question involved (no less than five couples) affirms this.

Case closed.

In short, Mrs. Epstein does not need to stop her PR campaign "Exposing Doug Phillips' Ecclesiastical Tyranny" merely because exploiting a home school conference for personal ends or sending an e-mail out to America's home school leaders is a completely unfounded way to seek "reconciliation" with a man -- though it is a patently wrong of her to use these tactics. Dear friends, THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is one of Mr. and Mrs. Epstein seeking repentance before BCA. And as FAITH PCA so clearly stated: "The elders of BCA stand willing to meet with you to hear your expression of true repentance."

Thus, there need be no more personal letters to Doug Phillips at the Arlington Bookfair or public e-mail and blog campaigns. The door is open for Mrs. Epstein. All that needs to happen is for her and her husband to willingly repent before BCA.

Mrs. Epstein put the public on notice several months ago that she and her husband had submitted to Faith PCA concerning this lingering conflict.

{editor's note: I'm going to quote Jen just to be clear "and we have agreed to submit to their authority as ordained Elders."}

And what was Faith PCA's conclusion?

# 1: "The Session of Faith Presbyterian Church (PCA), San Antonio, Texas, has met with the elders of Boerne Christian Assembly. In so doing, we have concluded that Boerne Christian Assembly is an evangelical, true, particular congregation that, like our own, is a part of the visible Body of Christ."

#2: "Knowing that Boerne Christian Assembly is an orthodox evangelical Christian church, we recognize your excommunication of Mark and Jennifer as a valid ecclesiastical act with continuing effect."

#3 (AND I REPEAT Faith PCA's words): "Thus, we admonish you [Mark and Jennifer] to return to the elders of Boerne Christian Assembly to express your true repentance with broken spirits and contrite hearts."

On May 14, Mrs. Epstein wrote the following on this blog:

"I think that you believe that an excommunication is not binding. While I do not think that Doug has any power over my soul (my God is much bigger than that), I do believe in church discipline, and I will continue to believe in church discipline, as I think it was given to us by God for a very important reason – to discipline serious sin in the church."

Does Mrs. Epstein believe this or not?

Faith PCA -- the church whose leadership earlier this year Mrs. Epstein and her husband publically proclaimed to the world that they had willingly submitted to -- has ruled. And they believe that BCA's excommunication is binding.

Mr. and Mrs. Epstein, you can't have it both ways. You can't pretend that "you beleive in church discipline"; that you've yielded to Faith PCA's oversight and then act is if there counsel is of no weight when they direct you against your will -- and then further seek to obfuscate the issues through equivocation and showmanship.

Therefore, let the reign of thunder against Doug Phillips, the man, cease; and may God's spirit move in the heart of Mark and Jennifer to humbly repent before BCA. As Faith PCA so pointedly observed:

"The elders of BCA stand willing to meet with you to hear your expression of true repentance."

Cordially,

Chris Crenwelge

-------------------------------

Thanks for that pointed commentary. I'm sure there are many out there who will find it a helpful read.

S.J. - More and more people are getting fed up are you?

Submitted to Jen's Gems

2007-05-15T13:27:00.000-07:00

From the beginning of [hermost recent] post:

“I enjoy attending home school conferences. It’s always a good learning experience, so I”d like to give a report on a home school conference that I attended this past weekend in Arlington, Texas…”

But in Jen’s comment on the same post…

“How many homeschool conferences have I ever claimed to go to? I have worked at several, but I am not in the habit of attending them. In fact, that is one reason why I have always wanted to go the Arlington Book Fair – to actually attend one. I have only attended one other homeschool conference in my life.”

Not that Jen lied, mind you. She never actually said that she attended a lot of conferences. Only that she enjoys attending them and always learns a lot - in a theoretical sort of way.

Could this be an example of what BCA accused her of in the documents Jen posted?
“Both of you are guilty of making misleading comments to your brethren bound to cause confusion to the saints.”

(almost) breaking news...

2007-05-14T21:53:00.000-07:00

The news is not so new here at Still Fed Up...the Epsteins have been caught lying (again)

It seems Jen has been caught in another slight of hand. Now she's exercising her "editor's perogatives" to change the details of the comments on her blog.

I received the following email about 11:45pm this evening.

==

Swordbearer John,

I was more than a little alarmed when the comments you posted for me went through on Jen's blog a few minutes ago.

Comment one here

Comment two here

What alarmed me was the fact that the timestamps on the comments had been altered. You see I had not finished typing them until well AFTER 10:30pm on the 14th. Yet the time showed as posted was 8:56pm and 9:04pm.

There are only 2 explanations I can think of for this kind of dishonesty:

1.) Jen is trying to make you and I look like liars by showing the comments as posted well before the email I sent you was blogged.

2.) Jen or Brian or Elizabeth or whoever is moderating tonight is feeling the brunt of all the negative comments they are receiving this evening for the ridiculous stunt they pulled in Arlington last weekend.

Either way it doesn't look good for the Epsteins in the court of public opinion.

Please let your readers know that they are being manipulated by Jen and Company when they read that blog.

Thanks for the hard work.

Still Not Trusting (the Epsteins)

==========

You really have to wonder if she is lying about something so small as the timestamp on a blog post how can ANYONE trust what she says about larger issues.

I wonder how many of our readers have noticed similar "edits" on Jen's blog.

If it's happened to you then drop me a line swordbearerjohn@gmail.com

S.J.

Yup I'm still fed up!

Is Jen censoring comments?

2007-05-14T20:41:00.000-07:00

Well gentle readers it seems that things are a changing over at the Jen-fest.
I received the following just a few short moments ago and thought I'd pass it along.

-----------------------------

Swordbearer John,

I attempted to post the following comments to Jennifer's newest post lying about Doug Phillips.

Since I have little hope at this moment of Jennifer (that's 2 n's according to the video ) posting them I send them to you in context so you can put them up.

Thanks for keeping this site alive and getting the truth out to all those Jennifer has tried to deceive.

Still Not Trusting (the Epsteins)
------------------------------

Jen Says:
May 14th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Angela: “Vengence is mine saith the Lord, I will repay”

Angela, how is seeking reconciliation taking vengeance? I went there truly seeking reconciliation.

Esther, these men are in their twenties. Yes, these are his “personal assistants,” one of which has even lived with Doug for about 7-8 years now. Their job is to make Doug look good. Doug trains them to become exactly like him. I have heard so many stories that one young man in particular USED to be nice. Doug changed him so much. I am still holding out hope that these young men will have their eyes opened one day.

---------

Jen,
Or should I say Mrs. Binoculars? They were a nice touch in the video.

I'm not Bob, but I have an idea why Bob Renaud might not have been able to get your letter to Doug Phillips.

As Bob was on his way to give the letter to Doug, Murphy's law kicked in and he ran into the process server and the letter went flying out of his hands and landed in a man hole. So Doug was not able to read it. And then on Saturday morning you were issued a criminal trespass warning so Bob couldn't ask you for another copy.

I can tell you where you were lying in part but first why don't you tell us your "source," the imaginary friend that tipped you off to the fact that Doug asked for the police to be called?
I rather think it was a case of yet another rational clear thinking set of individuals were dismayed, annoyed, and generally ticked off by your obsessive behavior.
By the way please keep talking, writing and speaking out. The more you lie and spin against an ever widening circle of rational people then the more the public will see how wrong you are.
I figure either your source is made up or like the process server he tripped and the dog ate his homework.
Back to the lies. Jen you and Mark seem to be obsessed with presbyterian polity lately - well at least until Faith gave you the boot- so why don't you go and read the Shorter Catechism on the 9th commandment-

Q. 76. Which is the ninth commandment?
A. The ninth commandment is, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Q. 77. What is required in the ninth commandment?
A. The ninth commandment requireth the maintaining and promoting of truth between man and man, and of our own and our neighbor’s good name,[165] especially in witness-bearing.
Q. 78. What is forbidden in the ninth commandment?
A. The ninth commandment forbiddeth whatsoever is prejudicial to truth, or injurious to our own, or our neighbor’s, good name.

See if you actually followed the doctrine taught here it would preclude your running deceitful articles and headlines like this one. You know you don't have any first ammendment rights on private property. That's right. I watched your youtube video and I clearly heard the police officer tell you that it was "their right" to ask you to leave. See you were on PRIVATE PROPERTY That doesn't jive with your home "spun" version of the story. I'd be willing to guess that the public right of way you are so very desirous of enjoying was waaaaaaaaayyyy out by the edge of the parking lot. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy away from all the conference you were trying to reach with your propaganda. See Jen, the public right of way extends about 15-20 feet from the edge of the road and in that convention center that's waaaaaay far away from where you were standing in that video.
Somehow though "Jennifer Epstein hands out three fliers along the highway in Arlington" doesn't have the same ring to it as your lie about Doug and the first Amendment.
Here we are once again being asked to believe that the Arlington board is in Doug's hip pocket along with
* Little Bear Wheeler
* Faith Presby's elders
* The F.E.A.S.T. board
* A supreme court Justice
* 200 or so good people who attend BCA (that walked with you for 5 years)
* The DeRosa's attorney
* The Chalcedon Foundation
and this list keeps on growing......

For my money I know who I'm trusting (and it ain't the Epsteins)

Still Not Trusting (the Epsteins)
---------------------------------------------------

Still Not Trusting says

Jen said "Yes and yes. And how many public Christian speakers do you know who travel with three bodyguards? (They do more than that, but that is certainly their main function. You should see Doug when he is walking to the classroom with one in front of him, one behind, and one on either side. Looks just like the President!)"

Not to sound like a broken record but Jen old girl if you spin this any faster or harder I'll need some Dramamine!

You asked "...how many public Christian speakers do you know who travel with three bodyguards"

I ask the public reading this how many speakers do you know of that have obsessive type-a personalities (like you) following them around?

If you go to as many homeschool conferences as you claim, you know that Vision Forum always has 2 or 3 clean cut Baptist boys in dark blue blazers working the table. It's how all their male employees dress at conferences.

I know plenty of business leader and Christian leaders that have personal assistants that travel with them. Although I'm sure Bob, Wesley, and Peter would be flattered to hear you think of them as body guards!

I'll close with the Shorter Catechism question

78. What is forbidden in the ninth commandment?
A. The ninth commandment forbiddeth whatsoever is prejudicial to truth, or injurious to our own, or our neighbor’s, good name.

So Jen ...there's a specific one for ya!

Repent

Still Not Trusting (the Epsteins)

---------------

There you have it folks. I couldn't have said it better myself. I wonder if Jen and Co. are a little embarrassed by the less than favorable reaction they are getting to their publicity stunt?

S.J.

Ps. He aint a trusting and I'm Still Fed Up!

Jen goes to Arlington

2007-05-14T00:01:00.000-07:00

Wrestling with the Epstein's Lies is like....

2007-05-08T18:13:00.000-07:00

That's me in the grey t-shirt...that's the wife in the cute bibs at the end.

Praise the Lord for more courageous Christians

2007-05-08T09:50:00.000-07:00

Yes Ladies and Gentlemen another Christian ministry has stood up with the Phillips.

The Chalcedon Foundation posted the following on it's blog today (LINK HERE)

Beware of Agents of Defamation

A letter has been circulating to various home school oriented groups and individuals that calls for organizations to disassociate themselves from Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. You may have received or read such a correspondence. As an organization that is friendly to the Phillips family and Vision Forum, we recommend that you disregard this correspondence and any and all web sites espousing such defamation and strife. The husband and wife team that sent this letter are currently under church discipline, and the accuracy of their personal complaints are contradicted by reputable ministries.Please pray for Doug Phillips and Vision Forum that the Lord will dissuade these fellow Christians from this needless campaign. Since the letter calls for organizations to disassociate with Doug, I want to make clear that the Chalcedon Foundation continues joyfully in it's friendship with the Phillips family and Vision Forum. I suggest you do the same.

Thanks to Chris Ortiz and the fellers over a Chalcedon.edu for standing for truth in the face of the Epstein's Lies.

S.J.

Truth cops

2007-05-04T17:55:00.000-07:00

excerpt from Tearing Down Strongholds
by R. C. Sproul, JR.

[My father] told me that he knew that I had grown my hair long for the express purpose of aggravating him. He gave an eloquent and a passionate discourse on all the hateful and disrespectful reasons I had for growing my hair. I let him finish, but only because I had no other choice.
"Dad," I said with some trepidation, "none of what you just said has anything to do with why I grew my hair long. I was not doing it to hurt you, for I have no desire to hurt you. You are assuming that all people who have long hair fit in the category of those whom you knew back in the sixties who had long hair. I've not joined some anachronistic sixties subculture. I'm not out drinking or using drugs. I haven't joined a rock band, nor am I spending my days protesting a war that ended a decade ago. You are making completely unwarranted assumptions in your reasoning about my hair."
One might think that that would have settled the matter. I was feeling pretty good about myself. I had kept my cool, affirmed my respect for my father, and certainly made peace. Surely the conversation could now end.
"Son, while I agree that you may believe it, I don't believe a word of what you just said. But if I'm wrong about your reasons, why don't you go ahead and tell me your reasons for doing this?"
"Well, I guess it's because" - now this was, and is, embarrassing - "because I don't want people to think that I'm just ordinary. I don't want to be this boring high school kid who is only interested in girls and cars and clothes and stupid stuff like that."
Now, having embarrassed me, my father was willing to be a little more gracious as he gave me a verbal scalping. "That may be an admirable goal, son, but you need to understand that people will see that hair and not reach that conclusion about you. They will see you as rebellious. They will not think you're filled with zeal, but with hatred for the things that matter. They will think all you care about is drugs."
He was so predictable. I had him in my crosshairs. "Well, Dad," I explained, "you know people shouldn't judge me for such things as the length of my hair. If they are going to be that judgmental, then I don't see why I should worry about it."
Surely now this ordeal would end. I was so compelling, so calm, so agreeable. I may even have harbored a small hope that I had done so well, that maybe he would grow his hair out a touch more, to show some solidarity with his wise and sensitive son. Instead, he called checkmate.
"Didn't you start out by saying that you grew your hair because of what you wanted people to think about you? And now you say you shouldn't care about what people will think about you!"
I had had many arguments with my father before that day. And I have had more than a few since then. But never have I experienced such an ignominious defeat. I was trounced, dead in the water. "Any barbershop will do," was how I cried uncle. I was ashamed, not of the length of my hair, but that I had missed such a glaring contradiction in my own thinking. It was then that I became a zealot not only for the Reformed faith, but for logic. Humiliation can do that.
I learned existentially then what I had heard my father say many times before:
Logic serves as a truth cop.

So let's call the truth cop on the Epsteins:

1. Is it just me, or has Jen been claiming all along (here and in their letter to homeschool leaders, for example) that she was excommunicated for sins she committed long ago, before she was even a Christian, sins she repented of long ago?

Now she complains that "Doug...publicly read, to the whole congregation, my pre-conversion sins, of which I had fully repented nearly 15 years prior and which had absolutely nothing to do with the excommunication."

What did she just say? That her pre-conversion sins had absolutely nothing to do with the excommunication.

2. Here's another from Jen's post, Kangaroo Court:

Although Mark is listed on the “Guidelines for Accountability,” this was mostly a sham, as Mark was never held to these standards...
These “reasonable accountability reporting guidelines” consisted of each of us being assigned people to whom we could call 24 hours a day to “tattle” on each other if there was a problem. Mark was told he could call Doug Phillips on his cell phone, although Doug never answered. Mark did talk to Jeff, the deacon, a couple times. I was assigned to call Beall Phillips, but since I don’t let my children “tattle” on each other, I did not feel it was right to “tattle” on my husband either, so I never called her.

Read that again. Who refused to hold Mark accountable? It looks to me like Jen, who would likely be the only witness to many of Mark's sins, made it nearly impossible for BCA to hold him accountable when she refused to "tattle" on her husband. Did she want the elders of the church to peek in the windows and keep an eye on Mark themselves?

3. That was in October 2002. But Jen also says repeatedly that...

Beall Phillips refused to speak to me at all after that meeting. (August 2003)
By this point, Beall was refusing to speak to me at all (August 2004)
(other than Beall, who refused to speak to me anyway) (October 2004)
her refusal to speak with me for the last couple years (October 2004)

Wait...Jen never called Beall? Not once?
Then how could she claim over and over again that Beall refused to talk to her for the next 2 years or more? It's not like Beall was turning down her phone calls. Hey Jen, if you mean that Beall didn't initiate any conversations with you then say so clearly. That's sure not what you said.

4. Want another? Try this on for size:
How often was Doug Phillips at church?

By this time period, [Doug] usually showed up about once per month, and when he did, he rarely stayed for the fellowship time, often leaving even before the service was over.

But...

Every Sunday, one of the deacons would begin the service by saying, “We believe in a plurality of elders…” and I would look around and see only one elder – Doug.

So...you saw him at church every Sunday?

5. Jen says that she was never told any of her specific sins, only broad and vague charges.
Yet that very document that she picks apart in her post lists many specific sins which she chooses to deny or creatively interpret. Not surprising, since her - er - creativity is one of the sins listed in the document:

“Both of you are guilty of making misleading comments to your brethren bound to cause confusion to the saints.”

6. The list goes on and on. Take a look at Olivia's pointed questions about contradictions in Jen's own account and see how Jen works to manipulate her own words to make the accounts line up.
A choice bit:

...the charges of racism against me are equally absurd. Although others have brought up charges of racism against Doug, please note that we have never stated such a thing ourselves.

Mark and Jen never "stated" that Doug was a racist? Maybe. But did they strongly and repeatedly insinuate that he was a racist?
From their letter which they emailed to homeschool leaders nationwide and also posted on Jen's blog:

Perhaps the single greatest risk of all though, in associating with Doug Phillips, are the numerous concerns expressed that he may be a closet racist. We ourselves are not prepared to make such an allegation. We believe that some of these allegations are based on the logical fallacy of “guilt by association.” The problem for Doug, though, is that some of the things that he has said and written do tend to cast strong suspicion on his views of race. Many of Doug Phillips’ personal heroes are notorious racists...

7. Not quite convinced? Try a google search on the terms Doug racist on Jen's site.
I count at least 4 hits and that doesn't include comments.

Whew, my fingers are tired. I hate to quit now but this could go on forever and I think I've gotten the point across. I've got to draw the line somewhere.
Just remember...

O what a tangled web we weave
When first we practise to deceive
Sir Walter Scott

BREAKING NEWS straight from the VF website

2007-05-01T14:20:00.000-07:00

Epstein Co-conspirator Fired by Supreme Court Justice from Position of Public Trust for Assisting Jennifer Epstein. Supreme Court Justice Describes Epstein Conspiracy as “Vile Scheme.”

read the whole article...

Fruits of Epstein leadership

2007-05-01T09:25:00.000-07:00

update: Natasha contacted us on May 2 and stated emphatically that she was not living with her boyfriend. We apologize to her for conveying a false impression to the general public
and have changed our statements accordingly.

My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. Indeed, we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. James 3:1-3

You have held yourself out as a leader 3 times.

1.) You have made it clear you consider it your divine calling to lead the charge against Reformed Pastors (especially if they are named Phillips or Sproul)

2.) You put yourself forward as a teacher on your blog, especially the header "In the spirit of Titus 2. "

3.) You recently represented yourselves as the "leader of a local home school group for seven years."

Scripture is very plain when it tells us that the qualifications for an elder is one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence. This article will show if Jennifer and Mark Epstein are qualified in this area.

Both of you make it a point to warn us of the bad fruit within other leaders' households. You once rebuked Tim Dick of Ligioner Ministries and stated he "should be held to the standards of "elder" in the Bible."

Jennifer, you have repeatedly held yourself out as a leader among women (and men) yet it's obvious what the fruit of your leadership brings.

What am I talking about?

I am referring to your daughter Natasha’s life. Once again she has given us a glimpse into the fruit of your teaching. Once again we see a crack in the veil of deception you have woven. You paint yourself as a picture full of humility and virtue but what is the fruit being harvested on the vine of your daughter’s life?

Hatred? Open immorality? Revelry? Crude language? Self indulgent love of pleasure? Let’s have a look at young Natasha’s life as she lets the mask of civility drop a little on her private blog.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Now in light of that let’s have a look at young Natasha’s worldview.

All quotes are taken from: http://www.xanga.com/genevamarie18. All asterisks and hyperlinks are added by me. The quotes are otherwise unaltered.

“Yeah, so I really really really hate BCA and Doug Phillips, and Matt Chancey, and Bob Renaud, Brian Howell, Mark Stubblefield, and above all, the Shorts. I'm not generally a person to be filled with hate or malice towards another, generally I just shrug it off when someone is out to get me, but these people are pure evilness in and of itself. And they have made it their number 1 priority in life to set out to destroy mine and my parents reputations. These people told us that our souls were damned to hell. Well, I say right back, go to hell yourselves, ***holes! There, I just needed to get that out of my system.”

“…..we are definitley getting a tattoo together when we do meet.”

“I miss Shishas.”

“I want to get a nose stud and my belly button re-done.”

"I want that lady from Body Central and the guy from the hookah bar to call me back and tell me if I got the jobs and when I start working!! It's p***ing me off!”

“My G**, this cat could never get enough attention! “

“I hate Texas, and I reserve the right to b**ch about it,”

My babe, Justin. The love of my life. He makes me smile like no other can. Keeps me real and in stitches all day long. I couldn't imagine my life without him now. And you better be saving me some of that Petron mister! Love ya!!!

Jessica is my bad*ss party girl! And she comes into CPK to have lunch all the time. I love hanging with this girl and taking shots. She's awesome!

Somehow I don’t think she was talking about polaroids.

Yes Natasha has a "new life" as she so eloquently stated in the comments of your blog.

Don't cry foul and change the subject. I didn't hold you out as a leader.
You did.

Don't point the finger at BCA. They didn't have Natasha in their home for 17+ years.
You did.

You, Mark, publicly praise your daughter as a "daughter of Aaron."

That's right you. You have been confronted in the past by the writers of this blog for your stubborn determination to continue wasting time while your own daughter's life is falling apart.

I quote from Sniffin’

"But, when you're so busy fabricating documents, playing the role of multiple web-bloggers, and thinking up evermore deceptive ways to sow discord, you likely don't have the time to disciple children like a noble Berean. Maybe some of the Jackson's (editor’s note “Jackson was the alias used by the Epsteins while they were stil pretending to be afraid of Doug) investigative reporting efforts could be redirected towards the obvious needs of their family."

I seem to remember a photo of Ryan Dick on your blog last year. Suddenly it seems eerily familiar.

Ryan Dick was 21 when he was blogging about his drinking.

Natasha was 19.

Ryan Dick was living in his father's house. Where is your "daughter of Aaron" living? Certainly not in her father's house.

" My presents are all spread out this year! After the rent is paid Justin is buying me 2 female ferrets!!! And I don't care how much he complains about it,..."

And again

“And that means that rent is due and after he pays that I get my presents!!!”

Jen, you say of Doug:

“I love him so much as a brother in Christ that I am willing to do whatever is necessary to see him come to repentance. “

And you said of R.C. Sproul

“we plead with you for this young man’s soul. It is obvious that the holiness of God is not very important to him. Please invest your lives in him before it is too late.”

Now I plead with you.

It is obvious that the holiness of God is not very important to Natasha. Please invest your lives in her before it is too late.

Take down your blog. Spend as much time “to do whatever is necessary to see” Natasha come to repentance.

Mark and Jen, you have a young woman who is hurt and fragile. She is in desperate need of an example of repentance. Stop your campaign of hatred toward the congregation that showed you the love of discipline and model repentance for your daughter. Do whatever it takes to win her back.

For further reading on Natasha's life and the exhortations to the Epsteins on their daughter's behalf:

Introduction

2007-04-28T16:07:00.000-07:00

Well gentle readers I told Mark Epstein on his wife's blog HERE that I would give an answer to the 10 points he tries to make HERE .

I feel compelled before I start to go over a few basics about this blog and why I started it.

I started it to offer an alternate voice to the mean spirited, tabloid-like "journalism" over at Ministry Watchman .

That was it.

People were attacking those who I loved and respected and I was going to make (as feeble as it may have been) an answer where they wouldn't or couldn't.

I was not going to let the good people of BCA - most of whom have better things to do than engage in an internet war of words - be pelted with the kind of false accusations the Epsteins were throwing through Ministry Watchman and their other online allies (Frank Vance, Little Geneva, Badlands,etc.)

Over the course of the winter other voices entered the fray (Fallacy Slayer, Sniffin, Matt Chancey; even a former Epstein ally Pooh's Think changed his mind and began a vocal criticism of their flimsy stories. Some I even gave some posting privileges here)

I'm not here to justify BCA's decision - it's not for you or me to retry the verdict against the Epsteins. I wasn't there and most likely neither were you.

BCA is a true church and part of the body of Christ. They are governed by The London Baptist Confession of 1689 and the particulars of their procedure by "A Treatise on Church Order" by John L. Dagg (a copy of which can be found HERE ).

The Epsteins knew this because BCA patiently educates all its new members on the implications of both before they join. The Epsteins joined and then tarried there for 5 years.

But I digress.

It was never my intention retry or reexamine the detailed evidence against the Epsteins but to point out to any that read here the prima facia (Latin for "at first sight") evidence for ignoring the Epsteins or rather Jennifer's vicious attacks.

I realized when I was catching up on the comments on Jen's blog today that the commentary here at Still Fed Up has been mostly in reaction to the Epsteins and as such not proactively presented in an easy to read fashion. This is why I decided to engage in a review of this unfortunate episode using Mark's 10 points (referenced in my previous post) as a jumping off point.

One final note. The Epsteins' accounts of the story will vary wildly from mine, and if you are very aware of Jennifer's extensive writing you will at times find yourself asking

"yes but what about where Jen says ....?"

There is only one simple yet elegant answer that I can give you, gentle reader.

They are lying.

Don't take my word for it though.

Take the word of the families of BCA who unanimously agreed with the excommunication (which was - in part - for habitual lying).
The word of the other elder who signed the "Guidelines for Accountability" and was in full agreement with the excommunication.
The word of the elders at Faith PCA who upheld excommunication upon speaking to BCA
The word of Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler and the elders at Living Water Fellowship who said they misled the home school leaders of America and discredited themselves .
The word of the San Antonio Texas home school leader who caught them in a lie (read the 4th paragraph)

Stay tuned for more. It should be an interesting weekend.

Swordbearer John.

If they would quit lying I wouldn't be
Still Fed Up

Submitted to Jen's Germs er Gems

2007-04-28T10:53:00.001-07:00

Mark, my man, I think I will take your challenge. I will be happy to answer your 10 points on my blog in the next day or so.

You say a lot without saying much so it shouldn’t be too difficult.

I’ve said it on my blog and I think it bears saying here…

I’m not an intern (nor have I ever been)
I’m not Doug Phillips (or a member of his family)
I’m not R.C. Sproul (or a member of his family)
I’m not a member of BCA (although I’ve attended there)
I’m not an employee of Vision Forum (but yes I know a few)
I’m not Matt Chancey (or a member of his family)

oh and if anyone wants to dialog with me my blog is not the place ….but my email is on my blog profile.

Four churches, two homeschool leaders, a few lawyers and lots of regular folks agree:

Mark and Jen are wrong and need to repent.

Mark - I’m not the one who has

“engaged in a logically fallacious campaign of guilt by association, ad hominem attacks, red herrings, faulty appeal to authority, appeal to pity …genetic fallacy, straw man, etc.”

You and Jen and the nature of these blogs prove my case.

S.J.
P.S. I kinda like Switchblade Juanito. It has a nice old west feel to it…and yes I’m Still Fed Up.

Mark "Black Mail" Epstein

2007-04-27T20:23:00.000-07:00

Well, Sports fans, Fallacy Slayer back again to point out a few more fallacies from the Epsteins. This time we will address Mark Epstein and his repeated statement that he has called on Doug "to repent in private correspondence, I have asked him (through his lawyer) the specifics that Doug thought Jen and I needed to repent of (July 2006 Letter to Don Hart), and I have called Doug to repent on my blog, Jennifer’s blog, and Ministry Watchman’s blog."

Well, friends I think we need a Justice Primer on another one of Mark's "private letters" to Doug Phillips. This time I am referring to his May 22, 2006 Black mail letter to Doug Phillips:

Doug, allow me to make it perfectly clear that this issue of excommunication is not going to go quietly away…[Y]ou [have] opened the door for public discussion of your behavior…If I do not hear from you by then, I will assume that you desire I take this issue elsewhere…[Y]ou stand to lose far more than I do….Doug, you know it only takes the touch of a button to find yourself in a similarly embarrassing situation as R.C. Sproul, Jr. Ask your IT folks how easy it is to reduce the … correspondence between us to Adobe [Acrobat] files, and then ask yourself if you want Jennifer’s letter of May 2005 seen side-by-side with your response…

Check out www.mrsbinoculars.com for the quote

Now, folks would you meet with a man who tried to blackmail you?

Would you meet privately with a man (Mark Epstein) so violent that other elders encouraged you to get a restraining order against him?

I mean this is nothing more than extortion. What I want to know is when is Doug Phillips going to sue Mark Epstein for libel and defamation? Since I am not a lawyer like many of the commentators on Jen's blog I am not sure, but I would think that a black mail letter would constitute "actual malice" under the legal definition of libel and defamation. However, Doug Phillips is probably a smarter man than to sue the Epsteins right now. I just don't know what he is thinking, but if I was Mark or Jen I would be concerned if I sent him a black mail letter and then went out and continued to smear his good name.

Now, I can hear Corrie, Lynn and Brandon already, but before you start to quoting 1 Corinthians 6 you need to remember that the Epsteins are excommunicants who no longer have the protection of the above passage. So this isn't going to be another "Christian Ministry sues Christian Blogger." The Epsteins are not even members of any church at the moment. Three churches in San Antonio have said they are no longer welcome and a fourth church's pastor wants them restrained by the law.

So for all the home school mommies out there that are continuing to believe that Mark & Jen are just a "poor, innocent and abused" couple should start to ask themselves if they are Christians why would they resort to such unlawful and unchristian behavior?

Until next time, I'm just the Fallacy Slayer

Let's let this one ride for a while

2007-04-27T09:27:00.000-07:00

The character of Doug and Beall Phillips is beyond question. I have known them for more than a decade and can personally testify to their good character. Please pray for their family as they battle these false accusations from the Epsteins.

This goes to the heart of the matter. I'll leave this one at the top for a while. It was taken from an article found here http://www.visionforum.com/about/issues/ep/feast.aspx.

Praise God for those brave souls who stand for truth with their friends.

S.J.

Another good read

2007-04-27T09:26:00.000-07:00

In early 2005, the Epsteins were excommunicated by their local congregation for habitual lying, revilings, division of the brethren, and cruelty. The discipline of the local church occurred only after years of patient intervention and loving care (for more on this, read the formal Boerne Christian Assembly statement). The discipline of BCA has been affirmed by the leaders of other San Antonio-vicinity congregations where the church leaders have labored to shepherd this couple to repentance in Christ, only to have the Epsteins respond to them with the same sort of lies, subterfuge, and attempts to divide the body of Christ which compelled BCA to excommunicate this wayward couple more than two years ago. (For more on this, read Faith PCA’s response to the Epsteins.)

taken from here:
http://www.visionforum.com/about/issues/ep/

A legend in her (Jen's) own mind....

2007-04-27T09:21:00.000-07:00

Folks it seems there is yet another voice being added to the cloud if witnesses against the Epsteins.

I submit the following quote from the Vision Forum response I found HERE

Jennifer Epstein's carefully worded self-appointment as a home school leader is misleading. She home schools her children and has a Charlotte Mason business. Her leadership as far as I know consists only of her customers. She had placed her name on our support group leaders contact list and also as a contact for tutoring. We have removed her from those lists.

Hold on. Let me get this straight. ANOTHER person in leadership in San Antonio where the Epsteins are locally known is testifying to the falsity of Jen's claims.

Read the rest of the letter HERE
It doesn't surprise me ...does it surprise you?

S.J.

VF answers

2007-04-27T09:12:00.000-07:00

At long last Vision Forum has posted a direct response to the lies.

Here is the body of the response which can be found HERE

I will post relevant commentary later with more information as it becomes available.
Thanks VF for "answering the fools".

S.J.

Earlier this month, Vision Forum and its president Doug Phillips were subjected to a carefully organized smear campaign designed to damage business, destroy reputations, and, specifically, to divide the home school community.

In light of the gravity of this recent attack, upon recommendation from Vision Forum senior management, and after prayer and seeking counsel from wise men, we have determined that it is appropriate to offer a public response on a need-to-know basis.

It is not our intent to arouse baser interests among our constituents or to entertain gossip. Neither is it our desire to unnecessarily draw unwitting individuals into the fray. However, for those seeking clarification in the midst of harsh accusations against the work of Vision Forum and its president, Doug Phillips, we will provide you with a link upon request, which contains our response to these lies, along with the response of various local churches, home school leaders, and others who have experienced adverse contacts with the perpetrators behind these attacks.

Before requesting additional information, please consider the following admonitions from God’s Word regarding the effects of being exposed to lies and talebearing:

Proverbs 16:28 A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.

Proverbs 18:8 The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

For those who are seeking clarification on these matters, you may e-mail us via the following link for additional information: response@visionforum.com.

Hey look over there...!

2007-04-27T08:00:00.000-07:00

Well good people of the internet Jen and Mark have done it again.

Just as new evidence that more and more church leaders ( see HERE and HERE ) are rebuking and distancing themselves from the Epstein/Taylor internet campaign of hate and lies Jen

(under the cover of darkness - does anyone else notice how they love the cover of darkness?
Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.)

anyway Jen and company pull a great big internet"Hey Look over there!"I hope everyone has gotten really good at spotting this technique of theirs.

Faith PCA "the peacemakers" look at the evidence and say "repent".
LWF see their email and say - They (Jen and he bevy of following fellers) are lying repent

Now do you think this gave the wild and wacky world of the Jen-eralie pause?
Not by the hair of your Jenny-Jen-Jen.

Did it give them any introspection?
Nope

Did it slow them down?
Not even a little.

Instead they pull out one of the weakest and oldest tricks in the books - MISDIRECTION

Yes the do what the average 12 year old does when caught with their hand in the cookie jar

CHANGE the SUBJECT.

Mark and Jen a bit of advice from the old SwordBearer. Pull out some of those S.M. Davis tapes you used for home church. You know the ones and find the message "What to expect from a 12 Year Old" once we have established a base-line for decent christian conduct maybe we can have a rational conversation.

S.J.

Just calling it like I see it - and yes i'm Still Fed Up

Those facts are troubling things

2007-04-27T07:55:00.000-07:00

Well it seems that the unrepentant "lying, liars who lie" just wont quit. I thought it might behoove us to take a little trip down a dusty road I call "the facts". It is in awful short supply over HERE and Here.

I was doing a little reading here http://www.visionforum.com/about/issues/al/ the other day and came across the following
article full of facts for you boys and girls who are regulars over at jen's blog (Hi Brandon, Hi Lynn, Hi Cynthia )

let me help you understand what facts are

Fact:
–noun

1.	something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

You don't have to take my word for it. Just go here to check http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact

This would be as opposed to false assertions (Hi Jen, Hi Mark).

False
–adjective

1.	not true or correct; erroneous: a false statement.

2.	uttering or declaring what is untrue: a false witness.

3.	not faithful or loyal; treacherous: a false friend.

4.	tending to deceive or mislead; deceptive: a false impression.

Assertion
–noun

1.	a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason: a mere assertion; an unwarranted assertion.

Alright are you still with me?

Now the letter that caught my eye most specifically was a charming little piece by a lawyer who represented the DeRosas during the Allosaur arbitration with Jolly Old Joe Taylor.

I will quote the letter now in its entirety with the relevant points highlighted. My commentary will be in red

December 30, 2006

To whom it may concern:

I am the lawyer who represented the DeRosa family in their dispute with Joe Taylor over the allosaur that was featured in Vision Forum’s Raising the Allosaur video. The Internet is currently ablaze with accusations against the DeRosas regarding these matters. Joe Taylor has been fanning these flames with numerous statements on the Internet as well as an intense email and letter writing campaign dedicated to destroying the reputations of the DeRosas. Many have drawn inaccurate conclusions from the failure of the DeRosas to respond to the charges, assuming they must be guilty because of their silence in the face of such allegations. That is not the case. (wow isn't that simply amazing: silence on the part of the accused does not imply guilt. for all you intrepid readers of Jen's constant carping this means that she and Joe don't get to be right JUST because they say something)The DeRosas and Taylor attended a Christian mediation that resulted in (1) Taylor (and his two brothers) receiving $124,843.75 for his claimed interest in the allosaur and (2) all parties agreeing to stop the war of words.

In order to pay the Taylors their money, the allosaur was sold by the DeRosas to an unrelated third party for $200,000. (The new owner is permitting the allosaur to remain in the custody of the DeRosas, but it is not owned by them.) Despite only receiving $200,000 for the Allosaur, the DeRosas agreed to pay the Taylors the percentages they claimed based on the appraised value of $350,000 (less certain agreed-upon expenses). Accordingly, out of the $200,000 in proceeds, the Taylors received $124,843.75, or 62.42%. The DeRosas “received” the other $75,156.25, but $30,000 of that was actually withheld by the third-party purchaser of the Allosaur as repayment of a prior loan from that purchaser to the DeRosas and another $25,000 went toward attorneys’ fees. A mere $20,156.25 went to the DeRosas, and all of that actually went into Creation Expeditions, Inc. for ministry expenses; none of it went toward any salary or labor costs of any of the DeRosas.

A crucial component of the settlement agreement was an effort to stop the war of words that was dividing the Christian community. The agreement contained the following non-disparagement clause that was mutually agreed to by all of the Taylors and DeRosas:

“No party will disparage or defame any other party.. The parties expressly agree there will be no criticism by Taylor of the “Raising the Allosaur” movie. Taylor agrees not to distribute the movie known as “The Truth About the Raising of the Allosaur.” All parties agree to remove from their own websites or publications any derogatory comments about the Raising the Allosaur movie or about any party to this Settlement Agreement." (I guess that is out the window - right Joe?)

The DeRosas have chosen to abide by this agreement and to avoid anything that could be construed as “disparagement” of Taylor, even to the extent of remaining silent in response to the onslaught of disparagement by Taylor. Taylor has chosen otherwise.

I do not represent Doug Phillips or Vision Forum, but I do have a few observations about their role in this matter. Vision Forum’s representative attended the Mediation with the consent of all of the DeRosa and Taylor parties, subject to its agreement to honor the confidentiality of the mediation. (State law mandates that communications between parties in mediations are confidential, though the confidentiality does not extend to the written settlement agreement reached at the mediation.) Because of this, Vision Forum has not been at liberty to disclose confidential communications made at the mediation, (wait wait wait..are you telling me that their silence means Vision Forum was KEEPING ITS WORD?!?!?! and here I thought silence made you guilty and immoral-- wait does that mean those charming folks over at Jen's place might be wrong even though they write a lot of words? go figure) and has been similarly reluctant to discuss the terms of the Settlement Agreement to which it was not a party. It too has therefore been constrained to silence amidst the flurry of accusations. Also, while I did not represent Vision Forum, it was my recommendation that Vision Forum cease distribution of the Raising the Allosaur video. I made this suggestion(remember folks this is an attorney not connected with Vision Forum - dare I say INDEPENDENT ) not because of any inaccuracies or falsehoods in the video (hold on let's play that one again not because of any inaccuracies or falsehoods in the video and again not because of any inaccuracies or falsehoods in the video and one more time for fun not because of any inaccuracies or falsehoods in the video. ok, ok, I'll stop) , but because instead of bringing glory to Christ it had become a lightening rod for criticism and divisiveness. (poor fella if he only knew what was waiting around the corner)I had hoped that by removing the video from the marketplace, the criticism and divisiveness might end. Sadly, that has not happened. (you're telling me)

On December 21, 2006 Taylor wrote the following on one of his Internet submissions:

If .. . . Pete DeRosa want(s) to challenge what I have said, we agreed in mediation that it could be brought back before the mediator for assessment. I would be glad to defend ANYTHING I have alleged.”

He will get his chance. The DeRosas have initiated arbitration proceedings with the mediator Taylor referenced. In the meantime, the DeRosas cannot directly address the charges leveled by Taylor without violating the non-disparagement agreement they signed. Suffice it to say that we believe the arbitrator, when presented with the evidence, will find the true facts to be very different from what Taylor would have the world believe in his Internet and other writings. We will ask the arbitrator to weigh all the evidence and issue a written opinion, to be made public, setting forth his findings on the factual disputes. We hope that Taylor will back his words of December 21st (above) by also agreeing in advance to the public dissemination of whatever the arbitral findings will be.

Until then, I would ask everyone who comes across any of the writings by Taylor or others on his behalf to reserve judgment and not to jump to conclusions based on unilateral gossip, hearsay, and embittered self-serving accusations. (What an elegant and well spoken chap.)

-----------------------------------------

This (independent) attorney gent is a top notch right thinking christian in our book. Before we close let's take just a second to recap the salient points here.

Silence doesn't mean you are guilty. A person or company might have a great reason for not answering a fool according to their folly

The idea to pull the allosaur movie was not Vision Forum's idea but came from an outside source

Vision Forum pulled the movie out of respect of the peace of the body of Christ

Vision Forum did not pull the movie over innaccuracies

Keeping quite when gossiped about does not make you guilty

Did I mention that keeping quiet when gossiped about does NOT make you guitly

The other side (read Jen and Mark and Joe et al) were engaging in "unilateral gossip, hearsay, and embittered self-serving accusations."

Oh yeah silence doesn't equal guilt

Well ladies and gents that's about all for now,but until next time I will leave you with a link ( http://www.visionforum.com/about/issues/al/ ) for some more good reads and a prayer that God will stop up the mouths of the liars in this world.

S.J.

Submitted to Jen's Germs er Gems

2007-04-27T05:59:00.001-07:00

Jen you do know that changing the subject doesn't the fact that FPC and Living Water are not exactly supporting your side of the story?

Misdirection is not exactly a great way to prove your case. You do know that right?

SwordBearer John
Yup...Still Fed Up

Submitted to Mark Epstein's blog

2007-04-27T05:32:00.000-07:00

Wow Mark you can use big words...but it doesn't change the fact you and Jen and Joe are lying.

BCA discipined you.

FPC upheld it. Wait let's go over that upheld it. Godly kind men from a completely uncconected church said "Forget peacemakers Epstein you need to repent"

Your response was to stick your fingers in your ears and yell "I'm not listening"

Let's go back to the beginning and let's start with small words like

"repent"

God will forgive you if you do.
Saying they were wrong just don't make it so!

S.J.

I'm
Still Fed Up

Submitted to Jen's Germs er Gems

2007-04-26T21:29:00.000-07:00

SwordbearerJohn Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:21 pm e
I’m still waiting for Jen or Mark to share with us Faith PCA’s correspondence with them. Could it possibly be that Faith had a well reasoned and rational rebuke for the Epsteins?

Hmmm

In case you are keeping track that’s three churches and counting.

S.J

In case you are wondering there are lots of folks who are Still Fed Up!

Submitted to Mark Epstein's blog

2007-04-26T21:28:00.000-07:00

Mark,

I'm amazed that you continue to parade your arrogance around the net. How many more times will you need to be excommunicated before you realize you are wrong.

BCA rebuked you.

LWF wasn't sorry to see you go.

Faith wouldn't let you in (based on the testimony of BCA)

Let me ask you a question.

How many times do you give someone under your authority a command before you expect them to listen?
How many times do you tell your children "no" before you expect obedience?

You should repent.

S.J.

and yes I'm
Still Fed Up

The House of Cards is Falling

2007-04-25T19:06:00.000-07:00

It looks as if the Epsteins have overstepped their bounds.

Living Water Fellowship has released a statement and it is anything but flattering for the Epsteins.

In case you have been sleeping this is the same LWF that is pastored by Little Bear Wheeler.

http://www.lwfchurch.org/statement.html

From the Pastors of Living Water Fellowship:

In the past few days, Pastor/Evangelist Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler has begun receiving inquiries through his Mantle Ministries office regarding an e-mail letter that was sent to home school leaders across the nation. The e-mail appears to be the most recent in a campaign of communiques by Mark and Jennifer Epstein that are designed to personally discredit Doug Phillips. We were grieved that such an e-mail would be sent, and deeply saddened to find that the e-mail contained inaccuracies and misleading information. We believe the letter discredits its authors.

The pastors of Living Water Fellowship desire that it be known that no issue exists between Living Water Fellowship, Boerne Christian Assembly or its leadership. We sincerely pray that the Epsteins will reexamine their behavior in the light of God's Word and in consideration of both churches, Vision Forum, Mantle Ministries, and the homeschool community at large. Please understand that the Lord's desire is always unity.

Psalms 133:1-2 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments..."

In His providential care,
Pastors Al Mendenhall, Michael Bakke, Doug Swanson, Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler

Faith PCA response to Epstein misinformation:
http://www.boernechristianassembly.org/faith.html

(emphasis mine )

S.J.

Justice Primer 4.0

2007-02-13T14:25:00.000-08:00

Well folks, Fallacy Slayer back again to offer a Justice Primer on Jen Epstein’s latest post regarding Ted Haggard and her veiled attacks on godly ministers such as Doug Phillips and R.C. Sproul Sr. and Jr.

Jen asks:

How serious are we taking God's Word as He clearly lays out the requirements for being an elder?

Fallacy Slayer asks: How serious are we taking God’s Word as He Clearly lays out the requirements of TRUE repentance for an excommunicant?

Jen writes:

I can't help but think of the four Reformed elders that were defrocked barely a year ago, but then were voted back in as elders almost immediately, although there was no true repentance forthcoming and although they clearly no longer meet the biblical requirements for being elders.

Fallacy Slayer says:

I can’t help but to think about Jen Epstein who was excommunicated by BCA over two years ago and then went on a rampage against her former church and now says she’s repentant, but continues to keep her websites up and continues to post comments on these sites. As well as allowing others who are critical of Doug Phillips on her site. Jen Epstein DOESN’T meet the biblical requirements of a repentant women.!!!

What about the application of Deuteronomy 19:18-21 that our friend Sniff pointed out in an earlier post?

18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; 19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. 20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. 21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

After all, according to Jen, “God gave us clear requirements in His Word, for the times when we are too fervently involved to think straight."

Again, I quote from Sniff:

Repentance means a change of direction, a change of heart, literally “reversal” not cover up and facade. (Remember the Epsteins were excommunicated, in part, for habitual lying!) Repentance is not simply removing what was bad, what was atrocious, what was sinful, what was wicked, but repenting of it – bringing forth fruit of repentance – declaring what was done was wrong, asking for forgiveness, and offering restitution… Repentance brings with it remorse and regret, and a desire to make things right and be restored…this means publishing your repentance just as you published your rebellion.

Jen says:

It still floors me that a charismatic mega-church is doing all the right things in this scandal with Ted Haggard, and not only that, but Ted Haggard seems to be responding in an attitude of repentance so far as well.

Fallacy Slayer says:

It still floors me that a PCA church would actually think the Epstein’s are repentant given the fact that all their websites are still online( MW, Jen’s Gems, Ultimate Truth, etc.) and they have not repented to the men and women of BCA for their evil deeds of darkness. Where is the public confession by the Epstein’s? If they are so innocent, why take down their websites? There is no repentance, no sorrow, just a desire to manipulate the situation. The Epstein’s are guilty of serious illegal activity and they know it. Matt Chancey has down a wonderful job outlining the conspiracy of the Epstein’s with the MW cabal and I don’t think a jury would look to kind on their evil deeds of darkness.

Jen concludes her article

What a great example for the rest of the Christian world. Christians, let each of us have such hearts that are quick to repent when we sin and be willing to bear the consequences for our own actions. To God be the glory.

Fallacy Slayer concludes:

What a great example for the rest of the Christian world when Mark and Jennifer Epstein publicly repent for their evil deeds of darkness they have perpetrated on innocent Christian men and women and be willing to bear the consequences for their evil actions.

Truly then, God would get ALL the glory!!!

Until then, I’m just the Fallacy Slayer

Read the Footnotes, Joe

2007-01-27T08:27:00.000-08:00

Well folks, Fallacy Slayer back again to point out a few problems with the Epstein’s and MW’s continued efforts to defame Matt Chancey and Doug Phillips. For the record, sports fans, Matt Chancey pointed out that the Epstein’s were part of the Blind Ministry Watchman, and now much ado is being made by Mr. Joe Friday and MW about Matt Chancey's "lack of proof" of his case in his recent article.

Joe Friday (aka Jennifer Epstein) writes: "But I don’t see anything in Matt Chancey’s 'investigation; that leads me to believe that any of the rest of you are kinists, or racists, or anything of the kind."

Mr. Wonka Watchman (aka Frank Vance), I have read Matt Chancey's article carefully, and in my view, Joe Friday is being intellectually dishonest (and that’s putting it nicely) to suggest that Chancey has accused the Epsteins of being kinists or racists or anything of the like. What Chancey actually writes is that the Epsteins are "running with the Kinists," not that they are one and the same. This is an extremely important distinction. Again, if Joe Friday, MW and the other homeschool moms would actually carefully read Chancey’s article, they would understand that Chancey never suggests that the Epsteins embraced Kinist ideals; only that they pursued a relationship with Seabrook and Vance for their own purposes. What Chancey suggests is that they built "key alliances with men who could aid them when they were ready to 'out' Doug Phillips" and used "the Ligonier lawsuit as a test case." To construe Chancey as branding the Epsteins as kinists misrepresents his work. It’s as simple as that. C’mon sports fans, just read what the man said and stick to his words!

Regarding Frank Vance's alleged kinist ties, Chancey has asserted that he does have evidence of this. Writes Chancey: "The evidence I have sifted through also demonstrates that “Vance” has Kinist sympathies, but he keeps those somewhat under wraps in order to avoid the avalanche of negative publicity that would be directed at Ministry Watchman if people knew that he and Jennifer Epstein were allied with white separatist bigots."

So where is the “evidence”, Mr. Friday wants to know? While it’s true that Chancey did not present conclusive evidence of Vance's kinism in his CURRENT article, if you read Chancey’s footnotes carefully, he maintains that his supporting evidence of this and other propositions concerning Seabrook and Vance’s close relationship is coming soon (in other words, it ain’t been made public yet): “The evidence supporting several of my conclusions will be disclosed as my investigation continues. Stay tuned to MrsBinoculars.com for further details.”

Jumping Joe Friday has conveniently left this point out in his written analysis. What a non-triumphant omission! I guess Joe-Joe and the Gang believe that wading through over a hundred footnotes is just too much trouble for them. Chancey has said that he has evidence to back up his claims that he has yet to disclose. To put it plainly: Chancey hasn’t played all his cards yet. It’s as simple as that, folks.

This being said, Chancey HAS clearly demonstrated active collusion between Seabrook and Vance in their attacks on Ligonier and Phillips.

So folks, while the jury may still be out Vance’s kinist commitments, I think reasonable readers can see through the public record (as well as the Mike Metzler correspondence) that Franky Vance and the Four Heathens (Seabrook, Epsteins, et al) have been in active dialogue concerning their own “politics of destruction.”

As to Mr. Vance’s purported kinism, given Chancey’s careful explanation of his undisclosed research (which none of the Ministry Watchman’s supporters have bothered to mention in this forum), I for one am waiting to see what he presents in his next articles concerning this before claiming ““logical fallacies,” as Joe Friday has done. The blind party in all this is Joe Friday, who doesn’t bother to read footnotes, not Matt Chancey, who has thoroughly documented his work -- and where MC. hasn’t spelled out his supporting evidence, he has acknowledged as much. Given this fact, why are all the innocent home school moms continuing to parrot this nonsense??? This is a shame.

Concerning Mr. Friday’s claim that Doug Phillips is a racist, the facts simply don’t support this flimsy claim. Those who have taken the time to read Doug’s website or listened to his talks knows this is poppy cock!! One example of this is Doug’s advocacy of Ken Ham’s book, One Blood, the description of which appears on the VF website, “Politicians and pundits may rail about "race issues" but only the Bible has the answers. The Bible teaches that there is only one race -- the human race -- and that every man, woman, and child on the planet is a descendant of the eight humans that got off of Noah's Ark.”

Also, before Harry Seabiscuit flushed all the records of his kinism from the world wide web, we could see that after attacking Sproul Jr, he loved to pick on Phillips for not sharing his kinist beliefs on race. READ CHANCEY’S first article on the LG connection for documentation on this.

You should also know this, Mr. Watchman: You can find several non-Caucasian dolls (Fidelia and Abigail) for sale in Vision Forum’s Beautiful Girlhood Catalog – not exactly the image you would expect promoted by someone who is a “racist.” In fact. folks, back in the day (Thank God, Harry’s days on the web are over!) Harry Seabiscuit loved to point out that Phillips was guilty of political correctness for carrying non-Caucasian dolls

That Doug Phillips appreciates the work of RL Dabney – the venerable Southern theologian and adjutant General to Stonewall Jackson in the War Between the States – in no way proves he is a racist any more than does Doug’s support of George Washington and Patrick Henry does, both of whom owned slaves. Doug’s support of Dabney’s views have never centered around Dabney’s views of slavery, but on Dabney’s keen analysis on the rise of feminism, the modern public school movement; and the largely unprincipled and misguided two party system (Republican twiddledum and Democrat twiddledee) that even in the late nineteenth century had abandoned God’s law for political expediency.

Another fun-factoid: if we continue down this road of logic we are going to need a “Justice Primer” pointing out that Union General Ulysses S. Grant owed slaves until the adoption of the 13th Amendment!! Yee-hah!

And while you’re hanging out in the hammock, here’s another tidbit: Harry Seabiscuit pulled his site off the internet because he was scared of losing his job. I wonder if Vance’s “soft mannered” attorney would lose his job if the bar ever found out that he gave wrong legal advice?

For the record: Doug Phillips has nothing to do with this website. However, unlike the Epstein’s who are active participants in MW and are copied in much of the correspondence with Vance and his “soft mannered” attorney, Doug’s out of the loop with StiffFedUp’s content. His contribution to our content amounts to nada, zippo, zilch. While we are not bashful in saying that we are seeking to defend Doug – who we see wrongly maligned by the Wacky Watchtower – he has nothing to do with our efforts whatsoever. Also let it be known that the Still Fed Up boys have only commented on information that has been made public first by the Epstein’s, Chancey and others that have contacted us.

Now down to brass tacks: Both Joe Freaky Friday and Where’s Waldo Watchman are making veiled threats that if Phillips doesn’t direct Chancey and the StillFedUp guys (that’s us) to pull the plug on their sites, that they are going to pounce with their newest concoction of vicious venom - implicating Doug as a “racist.” But sports fan, let me assure you that this dog just doesn’t hunt, folks, as the MW cabal will try in vain to find any real evidence to support their claims. No matter how much the MW miscreants foam at the mouth, they simply won’t scare up any race-baiting vermin from the VF farm, because none exists.

What I want to know is this? What is Watchman going to do when Chancey comes out in his next articles with hard evidence to support his claims of Frank Vance’s kinism? Will Ministry Watchman yank their lifeline? Will they pull the plug on their handy-dandy hatchet site against DWP and the Sprouls?

I have a recommendation (because I don’t make threats) and that is that I recommend MW take down their site before they embarrass themselves any further!!!!

I am not holding my breath.

Until then, I'm just the Fallacy Slayer

Jennifer Epstein is Mrs. Binoculars!!!!

2007-01-23T08:58:00.000-08:00

Well, Sports Fans, Fallacy Slayer back again to let everyone know about Matt Chancey's lastest installment over at Mrsbinoculars.com. Mr. Chancey has presented evidence that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jennifer Epstein is working with Frank Vance and Ministry Watchman. I have to say that this is one fine piece of journalism. I am guessing that most of the homeschool moms who have been sucked into Jen's lies didn't really have the time to read Mr. Chancey's outstanding footnotes. Unlike MW Mr. Chancey actually documents every point he makes. So I have selected what I believe to be some of the real Gems from his article and interestingly enough some of them came from Jen's Gems...

So let's begin with Matt's last footnote 100:

On December 11, a blogger submitted this question to Jennifer on Jen's Gems: One of the charges which has been floating around about you by your unscrupulous detractors is the notion that you are not now a member of a church. I was so encouraged when you talked about your pastor in your recent blog. Where do you go to church and who is your pastor? I am guessing that this is a church with more than one elder, unlike the BCA cult?”In Jennifer's response: she indicated that she had her full support of her elders for her blogging activities, “Given the closeness in proximity to everyone I am writing about, I think it would prudent to not name the church we are currently attending. It does have several elders, however, who are fully behind us in this endeavor. (Emphasis added.)

By Jennifer’s own admission in her January 15 blog post it is clear that she and Mark were neither members of Faith PCA on December 11, nor did they have the support of their elders at that time:
We’ve requested membership at Faith Presbyterian Church (PCA) in San Antonio, Texas. We have fully described our excommunication by Boerne Christian Assembly (BCA) to our Session of Elders. The Session has agreed to work with us toward reconciliation and restoration, and we have agreed to submit to their authority as ordained Elders.There are certain terms and conditions that the Faith Session will place upon us to begin the process of restoring us to communicant church membership. In fulfilling these obligations, the Session will have evidence we are sincere in our desire to become members of Faith Presbyterian Church under the authority of their Session. The very first of those issues is that we demonstrate a willingness to be reconciled with our brethren at BCA. (Emphasis added.)

I wonder if the Faith PCA elders know about these comments from Jennifer???

Next, I would like to point out Mark Epstein's black mail letter to Doug Phillips:

Doug, allow me to make it perfectly clear that this issue of excommunication is not going to go quietly away…[Y]ou [have] opened the door for public discussion of your behavior…If I do not hear from you by then, I will assume that you desire I take this issue elsewhere…[Y]ou stand to lose far more than I do….Doug, you know it only takes the touch of a button to find yourself in a similarly embarrassing situation as R.C. Sproul, Jr. Ask your IT folks how easy it is to reduce the … correspondence between us to Adobe [Acrobat] files, and then ask yourself if you want Jennifer’s letter of May 2005 seen side-by-side with your response…8
Phillips refused to be bullied. The rest is history.

Again, Fallacy Slayer asks "Have the Epstein's told the Faith PCA elders about this letter?" In addition, I wonder if Jennifer and Mark have told the elders that they were working in tandem with Frank Vance to defame Ligonier and Doug Phillips?FS

Jennifer Epstein began taking marching orders from “Vance” himself, as he directed in a September 22 email to her:

Feel free to start writing now. Please just hold off on posting it until further notice. Thanks for everything.46

Jennifer responded to “Frank”:
Out of deference to your request, I will wait to post anything. But I would like to tear those [Ligonier’s] statements apart!47

Here's some more evidence from Matt's article that shows the evil deeds of Mark and Jennifer and how they really had been spending their "time" trying to reconcile with Doug Phillips(FS)

Even as Mark and Jennifer Epstein paid their dues to Seabrook and Vance by joining their cause célèbre, their true motivations for joining the fight against Ligonier quickly surfaced. In a letter written to Michael Metzler of poohsthink.com on September 13—nearly a month before Ministry Watchman was founded and a full two-and-a half months before the first article against Doug Phillips was released—“Vance” wrote:

I’ve been in correspondence with a family from San Antonio. DP was their former pastor. Their story is a repeat of the Austins, excommunicated and shunned and even worse….They’re planning on going public soon.48
Vance would write again to Mike Metzler:

I don't personally have any plans for Phillips. The folks [the Epsteins] that have dialogued with me regarding Phillips won’t be ready to out him for several weeks, so your rip into Phillips could be the warm up act and I’m sure they’d be happy for the help.53

Mark and Jennifer probably never told the elders at Faith PCA that they were working with Internet Terrrorist Frank Vance to take out their former elder:(FS)

Vance” took the Epstein’s bait hook, line, and sinker. In this October 13 email, “Vance” alerted Michael Metzler to plans for the newly-founded Ministry Watchman to target Doug Phillips:

You’re going to see some new contributors on [Ministry Watchman] shortly. Some of the very next articles are going to be focused on Phillips (he’s about to be outed on some very ugly skeletons in his closet). Mr. Phillips is one very bad boy…58

Here's more evidence of the illegal behavior of Frank Vance and Jennifer Epstein. They better watch out that because they could be sued for these actions:(FS)

“Frank Vance” gloated about this underhanded tactic, writing to Michael Metzler:

[It has] [b]een a very busy day for us [at Ministry Watchmen], and no doubt not such a happy day for Doug Phillips. Keep this confidential but someone today sent over 600 emails to key Vision Forum/Phillips supporters with a link to the article. It’s really shown in the number of visitors today too.64

More evidence of Mark and Jennifer's love affair with the Kinist!(FS)

Mark Epstein then posted to Little Geneva a profuse “thank you” note for Seabrook’s continued support of he and his wife’s campaign against Doug Phillips, which reads in part:

Dear Harry, I publicly commend you for your stand for justice. This is a foundational principle of a godly government — whether civil or church. Regardless of what anyone thinks of my past marital situation, whether I should have divorced Jennifer, or any other concerns, Christ’s sacrificial death (on our behalf) is the basis for the imputation of righteousness to each of us.89

I can't believe Mark Epstein (a Jew) would praise a man that hates Jews and Black men and women. I guess Mark's hatred for Doug Phillips would be justification for working with a bigot like Harry Seabrook?(FS)

Well folks, I think we can see from this latest article that the Epstein's are in very big trouble and MUST REPENT now as it is not going to go well for them. Over at Pooh's Think Michael Metzler posted more correspondence from Frank Vance and his "soft mannered attorney." I wonder who his attorney is? Is it true that Frank Vance was getting legal advice from a real attorney about how to defame and libel Christian Ministers and Ministries??? How fitting that Mr. Vance would make up a lie and say that Doug Phillips counseled Ligonier to sue him, but that he was getting LEGAL advice from an attorney in order to protect himself!!! Did his "soft mannered attorney" give him this advice?

97 Metzler Correspondence. In this October 14 e-mail to Michael Metzler, “Frank Vance” explains to Michael how that the Ministry Watchman team hides behind proxy servers to keep from being sued for their activities: “Part of the reason it was so hard for Ligonier to sue me is they can't nail down where I lived, other than that I was emailing Tim Dick from Germany (just imagine what the judge must have thought of that). That's one of the nice things about using proxy servers. If you're not already set up to proxy please do so. It's likely that Watchman will be sued and it's therefore critical that we cover our tracks. That means always accessing Watchman via proxy server. It also means setting up a separate email account (I recommend gmail) again via proxy, and only access via proxy every single time.”

Until next time, I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Epsteins Praise Kinist Race-Hating Bigot!

2007-01-16T18:11:00.000-08:00

As the story continues to unfold the depravity of the scam keeps getting worse.

Read Matt Chancey's latest:

The Unmasking of Mrs. Binoculars, Part II
Strange Bedfellows: Jennifer Epstein’s Kinist Connection

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:14)

2007-01-15T18:53:00.000-08:00

Boy things are certainly happening fast these days! Harry Seabrook, the infamous and self-described “Good-Natured Internet Assassin,” calls it quits and pulls his website, (see Matt Chancey’s Breaking News!) and the Epsteins are seeking to show repentance in pursuit of “reconciliation!” One can only hope this latest attempt will be a genuine display of repentance…

For now, Jen states that the necessary editing on her site has already been done. But, the title of her site still reads: “Jen’s Gems: Exposing Doug Phillips Ecclesiastical Tyranny” guess she missed that inflammatory ad homonym!

Repentance means a change of direction, a change of heart, literally “reversal” not cover up and facade. (Remember the Epsteins were excommunicated, in part, for habitual lying!) Repentance is not simply removing what was bad, what was atrocious, what was sinful, what was wicked, but repenting of it – bringing forth fruit of repentance – declaring what was done was wrong, asking for forgiveness, and offering restitution… Repentance brings with it remorse and regret, and a desire to make things right and be restored…this means publishing your repentance just as you published your rebellion. Boy, I’m sniffin hard here, and I want to believe the Epsteins are really interested in repenting of their hate filled actions, but if we are to believe they are repentant, actions must speak louder than words – keeping the title of Exposing Doug Phillips Ecclesiastical Tyranny certainly doesn’t sound like a change of heart.

And what about the instruction the Epsteins have received from the men they hope to call Elders? “Removing the accusations from the Web will provide evidence that we are repentant…” If the information is to be brought down then something must be wrong with it…if something is wrong with the information, then something must be done to make it right…taking down the information is evidence that something was wrong but no evidence of correction to make things right – restitution requires repentance not to be repented of – the wrong was spread throughout the world wide web, the slander was spewed abroad, the sewing of discord instigated others to slander and defame, now simply pulling articles and commentary is to make things right? This is hogwash! Worse yet, this has all the appearance of a façade, a fake, a public relations move to feign submission and righteousness! Oh boy, this smells like another soap opera of lies, lies, and more lies by lying liars who lie.

Let’s hope not. God, in His pleasure, can certainly work repentance. The Epsteins are certainly not beyond His reach. But fruit must be evident, not just words – pretty words are often deceptive – it is the heart that matters, and the heart will yield fruit from its abundance.

Thus far, the Epsteins sought to warn the world of so called Tyrants' atrocities. This was their calling of God, so they said. And after malicious attacks personally, professionally, and against family members, they now seek to be restored through simply removing the articles. What about the application of Deuteronomy 19:18-21?

18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; 19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. 20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. 21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

If the Epsteins have stated wrongful things then there’s more to expect than simply removing the hateful articles – some real humility and recognition of wrong through clear declaration should be offered. Where is the remorse?

And what of the cohorts they teamed up with? What of Frank Vance, whom they praised for weeks? What of Harry Seabrook, the Kinist bigot, whom they flirted with and bantered back and forth with? Are these not atrocities as well? Are these the acts of repentant Christians? Are they now renouncing all of this activity? I've not heard anything of this sort yet.

Oh yes, MinistryWatchmen has agreed to pull the Epstein's articles, out of the kindness of their heart, they say. In fact they are humbled by the wonderful example the Epstein's have offered. And they're even considering removing other articles. All because of the Epstein's example. After weeks of venom, slander, malicious tone, misrepresentation, scandal, and lies, no more do they feel the burden, the calling that God gave them, to expose so called Ecclesiastical Tyrants. More patting on the back. More atta boys. The truth is, the whole gang has been exposed, and the team is grasping at any opportunity to save face. So, "let's say we're repentant!" "Yeah, we'll try that one - I think that one will look good!"

But, real repentance includes real confession and taking responsibility. Repentance includes humility and shame for the wrongs committed. Repentance doesn't include boasting of actions which fain repentance - we still don't have an apology folks. We still don't have remorse or grief or request for forgiveness. We don't even have the title of Jens Blog removed yet... So, what are they supposed to be repentant of? "I'm so sorry I spoke a wittle mean word - I'll take it down right now." These folks have been dividers of the brethren. Taking down words doesn't repair things. Confession of their own lips, request for forgiveness, and restitution are still due.

But don't worry, "Removing accusing words from the public forum greatly increases the opportunity for reconciliation and restoration." How about confession? How about real repentance? How about taking responsibility for actions which were wicked and hurtful and full of lies?

For now I’ll wait. I hope my skepticism is wrong. If this stated repentance is real, if it is genuine, then I’ll gladly welcome it and invite clear evidence of it. But, for now, I wait in the category of “a watching and skeptical world.”

I’m still sniffin.

The Epstein's Biggest Cheerleader Takes his Pom Poms and Call it's Quits!

2007-01-15T18:30:00.000-08:00

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Children of all ages,

Fallacy Slayer is out of pocket right now but he did manage to get this post off to me today.

I am gratified to see folks like Harry being caught in their own net.

S.J.
----------------------------------------

Well, Sports fans Fallacy Slayer back again to let people know about the excellent work Mr. Matt Chancey has done in exposing more of the sinister deeds with regard to the players in the Blind Ministry Watchman scandal. Yesterday he launched a great post exposing the "Kinist King" and Esptein Family cheerleader--Harry Seabrook. click HERE. Today he has another response to Harry's Swan song. Click here. And now, the Excommunicated Epstein's are pulling down their sites. I guess maybe Mr. Military Mark Epstein is afraid of losing his job given the fact that he is been so close to Seabrook? I know one thing the U.S. States Military isn't going to put up with a racist!

I thought that the Fallacy Slayer should weigh in and point out a few of the fallacies in Harry's final good bye:

Some Holy Terrorists took advantage of the opportunity, knowing we would be away. We know who they are.

If you know who they are, Harry, name them! Go to the authorities! A multilevel hack with this level of destruction is, as mentioned, a serious crime. Contact the Internet Crime Complaint Center , because if you already have evidence leading to the perpetrator's identity, plus the server logs showing data tampering, you have a very solid case. If you have neither of those things, they will laugh at you almost as hard as I'm laughing at you.

Obviously, Wordpress security is not what we expected.

Actually, Wordpress has an excellent reputation for strong security that is updated often , and since it's an open-source and widely used blogging program, its security fixes are very thorough. I agree with Chancey that this site was either compromised by an extremely competent professional (who then proceeded to act like a bumbling neophyte), or by a bumbling neophyte on the inside (who then proceeded to act like a bumbling neophyte).

We wish to extend special thanks to Pastor Douglas Wilson for being the only one of our adversaries to attempt to argue against our old-fashioned views.

"Pastor?" When did Seabrook upgrade Doug Wilson from "Dishonest Doug Wilson?". Bashing Wilson was only one step below race-baiting in Little Geneva repertoire. I mean, he has hated "Dishonest Doug Wilson" longer than the other Doug. I'm guessing this is just another attempt by Harry to try and bait Mike Metzler into coming to his defence. Harry probably thinks that if he praises Wilson, Metzler will not go after him, but will turn his barrels on Wilson. Some how I don't think that is going to happen this time Harry.

We're so dispirited over the 6-year attempt to put controversial opinions up for honest debate and being met with little more than censorship and terrorism that we are calling it quits.

What a spineless wimp. One extremely unconvincing "hack" in the space of six years counts as "little more than censorship and terrorism?" In other news, Harry was sent some spam so he stopped using email. Then he got a virus, so he threw away his computer. If his car ever runs out of gas, he's switching to a horse and buggy.

We're told that books and newsletters are the media of the future.

Yeah, the year 1452 just called, and it wants the printing press back. If anyone criticizes Harry's spelling, will he switch to hieroglyphics and pictograms?

The normal course of events was running, hiding, sabotage, and threatening lawsuits.

Said the webmaster as he ran, hid, and sabotaged his own site. And if only someone had actually hacked Little Geneva, Harry could take them to court. But that would be stooping to their level, and the new, peace-loving Seabrook would rather sit and sulk.

While the Internet is a useful educational tool, it illustrates that individuals are powerless in war.

What war? Harry Seabrook has spent six years playing war, sniping from his bitter internet fortress at ministries, ethnic groups, and just about anybody that he personally doesn't like, and so far he has experienced no personal repercussions whatsoever. And now, when someone finally, for the first time ever, deigns to acknowledge Harry's existence by attempting to contact him in a non-internet medium, our terrified boy-Napoleon sounds an all-out retreat, pulls down his own tree house, and cries like a little girl about the unfairness of cyberspace!

Filed under: General - X @ 12:58 pm

One more thing: this Postscript was not posted by "HLS, Good-Natured Internet Assassin," as Harry's posts always are. This message was written by none other than the mysterious Mr. "X" (formerly known as "HNIC of Scurrility.com," also nicknamed "Malcolm"), the alleged "hacker" of Little Geneva. Who is doing the whining here? Is it Harry or the hacker who can't take any more hate and strife? Or or are they one and the same confused person, as I suggested earlier?

In any case, Harry Seabrook can't finish the game he started, so he is taking his ball and going home.

So what was Seabrook's involvement in the Ministry Watchman fiasco? He obviously wasn't the brains of the organization, and he's too lily-livered to have been the muscle. I think Little Geneva was the appendix of the organization; a small and useless organ so full of filth and gall that it had to be removed before it burst and contaminated everything around it. Was it taken out in time, or has the infection already spread?

Happy Lee/Jackson Day--Harry!

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer

Michael Metzler and poohsthink with more great-sense commentary!

2006-12-23T12:08:00.000-08:00

Obvious thoughts about Ministrywatchman’s apology: James Wilson Saves Me Typing Time This Morning

Comments in brackets are mine [Michael Metzler]:

Michael,

I saw Chauncey’s second post last night (i.e., Thursday). I immediately went to Ministry Watchman to see if they had a response, and found their “Public Apology.” I cracked up at their “explanation.” I also checked out the Flickr link in the comments section.

In today’s post, Chauncey recommends that we run a Google test. I already did last night, and couldn’t believe Ministry Watchman’s staff would be so stupid to botch their second cover-up exactly the same way they botched their first.

But laying all of that aside, the “Public Apology” was an insult to every person who has ever had to look another person straight in the eye and apologize for something. An anonymous person is taking the heat for the actions of another anonymous person. How courageous! [indeed!]

How, by the way, does an anonymous person “take full responsibility?”

One final observation. Reading the comments to the “Public Apology” section makes me suspect that the posters are all Ministry Watchman staffers using different pseudonyms, or, in the irony of all ironies, Ministry Watchman’s fans are behaving like members of a cult.

Life, liberty, happiness, [and personal identity!]

James Leroy Wilson

Sound thoughts from abroad!

Thanks once again for posting some clear thinking, Mr. Metzler.

Sniffin

It's Over Again for the Terrorist at MW

2006-12-22T08:27:00.000-08:00

Well sports fans, Fallacy Slayer back again to let you know that Mr. Matthew Chancey has exposed the second major cover up over at the Blind Watchtower of the Epstein's. Be sure to check it out at www.mrsbinoculars.com.

In the meantime here are some excerpts from his excellent article that I don't think we will ever see answered from the terrorist over at MW.

"Apparently, the Watchman's fervent assertion that “Mrs. Binoculars” was not Jennifer Epstein at all but was an old photo pulled (with permission, of course) from an online photo album turned out to be, well, a lie. But the Watchman is not to blame—it was his web guy who was at fault. Turns out, the poor guy had concocted an elaborate ruse involving a fake online travel album, stolen photos, and backdated timestamps—all to avoid being caught lying to the Watchman about securing permission from the (unnamed) real owners for the use of the copyrighted Mrs. Binoculars photo. "

"In fact, not producing the original source photo is, in itself, evidence that I'm right. The original photo, in its entirety, would have settled the question once and for all. The fact that Ministry Watchman would not produce the original photo can only reasonably mean that the photo would not be helpful to their cause. All they had to do was produce the uncropped, unaltered original, and show us the face of the actual subject—a face that is not Jennifer Epstein's. They could have proven me to be wrong. Case closed. The fact that Ministry Watchman won't produce this information can only reasonably mean that the original photo would not be helpful to their cause."

And one of my favorite points comes from one of his footnotes:

"When was the last time you heard of anybody constructing a time-intensive, incredibly elaborate cover-up scheme of this nature, all because they forgot to ask for permission for an image from an anonymous and painfully non-professional site? Besides, didn't Watchman notice the many non-original images uploaded to that album? For example, the image of Garry Moore (spelled wrong on Flickr) is obviously scanned out of a magazine, and still has the photographer's credit in the corner. ynotpic is clearly not the owner of that or several of the other pictures, so whe should we assume that the banner of Mrs. Binoculars belongs to him? "

As we have outlined numerous times before on this site, it is OVER for MW. Anyone with eyes to see knows that MW can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything. All they do is keep repeating the tactics of Adolph Hitler:

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

Again, we call on the Epstein's to repent and turn to Christ for their public fraud, deception, and defamation of godly men and women.

Until next time, I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Ministry Watchman offers "A Public Apology"

2006-12-21T16:48:00.000-08:00

The following is a summary of their comments:

I, webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, fire myself, the webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, for being bad and caught in a lie.

Furthermore, I rehire myself, as webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, and promise to do better in the future.

Disregard this uncalculated error for which I have been caught. Forget that I so confidently set forth a lie which was discovered and exposed my ongoing and newly heightened level of deception. I recommit to you as webmaster, owner of Ministry Watchman, and publisher, to be more deceptive in the future and will do my utmost, my very best, not to get caught again. Also, I promise to now take down the banner for my website so I can further cover my tracks. My only request is that at least one of you submits two dozen comments on my site, each under different names, all of which praise me for my nobility in admitting that "I am a lying liar who lies."

Please do not reference the Iraqi Minister of propaganda.

Thank you in advance for your patience. I am the wizard of Oz, never mind that man behind the curtain, disregard deceptions that are apparent, I am the great wizard of Oz - no really, stop laughing, I am the wizard, I mean the Watchman!

P.S. I will also post more comments to myself telling me how noble I am and what a great work I am doing. Thank you for continuing to read me.

Folks, does Watchman's apology pass the Sniff test?

NOT FOR ME!

Sniffin

Breaking News

2006-12-16T14:14:00.000-08:00

www.mrsbinoculars.com

Well ladies and gents I am pleased to point you to some of the most insightful, clear eyed writing I've read in weeks at www.mrsbinoculars.com

I won't spoil the fun by commenting except to say -

Mr. Chancey sir I salute you!

S.J.
"Now Matt's fed up!"

Breaking News!

2006-12-12T08:15:00.000-08:00

Well sports fans, it seems in the pursuit of truth, justice, and a clean name for my friends, there is a new voice entering the fray. We were contacted earlier today by Matt Chancey. I have reprinted the message in its entirety (except for the removal of Mr. Chancey's personal contact info).
We have taken great and scrupulous care to verify that Mr. Chancey is who he claims to be, and not somebody operating under a pseudonym.

Stay tuned for further news in this breaking story.

from: Matthew Chancey
to: swordbearerjohn@gmail.com
date: Dec 12, 2006
subject: FYI

Dear Fed Up,

I have observed your rigorous handling of the attacks by Ministry Watchman against Doug Phillips and BCA over the last couple of weeks on your website and have been encouraged.

As one who has known Doug for more than eleven years and observed him in various capacities and circumstances, I know his character to be above reproach, and given this fact, I felt compelled to no longer remain silent in the face of the numerous slanders that Ministry Watchman has lodged against him.

Over the last several days, I have conducted my own independent investigation of Ministry Watchman and would like to send you a full article, within the next 24-hours, for your review and consideration to post which explores the following questions:

------

"The Unmasking of Mrs. Binoculars"

> Are Ministry Watchman and Jennifer Epstein guilty of massive fraud on the public?

> Has the Internet community been manipulated and played for fools by a woman working behind the scenes for months to weave a web of deception capable of entrapping both friends and foe in order to ultimately carry out her vengeance?

> Mounting evidence points to Jennifer Epstein as at least one of the key individuals behind the launching of Ministry Watchman.

> Is Jennifer Epstein Mrs. Binoculars?

…Stay tuned for proposed answers to these questions and more."

------

I will also be requesting that Pooh’s Think consider this article for publication as well.

I am offering you this as a third party, based on a third party investigation. It should be noted that I am not associated with any of the websites involved in this issue, nor have I ever posted on any. Neither am I an employee of Vision Forum, nor have I been asked or commissioned by Vision Forum or Doug Phillips to conduct this investigation, though I do strongly believe in Doug's work and have been a friend and supporter of his ministry for years.

Thank you for your consideration of this matter.

Regards,

Matthew L. Chancey

xxx-xxx-xxxx – you may call for your verification purposes only. Please do not publish my phone number.

It’s Over for the Ministers of Propaganda

2006-12-08T07:25:00.000-08:00

Good morning folks! Fallacy Slayer back again to make a few observations on the latest lies and cover up by the Blind Ministry Lap Dog of the Epstein’s. First, they assert that this site has obscene references. Obscene references: I don't believe it. The only obscenities have come from members of the Epstein family who have used the f-word and others, as we have documented in other post. This is MW's way of saying we don't want anyone to be aware of our cover-up regarding the ongoing sins of the Epstein’s in direct relation to their adultery. After all, they have refused to post any comments on the facts. You can no longer bring up the marriage bed issue over at MW. Fallacy Slayer would like to point out that this is a tactic of what people engaged in a cover-up do. We will just shut down the discussion. We would rather talk about pools, about how stupid we think Beall Phillips is. That is o.k. but facts about the formerly anonymous accusers...? Don’t mention anything about them!

Hmmm, let me see if I get this straight. Ministry Lapdog covers up the fact that Jen Epstein--self-proclaimed prophet of integrity from Jens Gems and co-author of the articles on herself at MW---was disciplined for numerous sins including some directly related to her ongoing cruelty towards her husband (I’m glad my wife isn’t like this) in connection with an adultery she committed, a child born out of wedlock, and the fighting over the bed of adultery that went on all the way leading up to their excommunication.

But it gets worse: Ministry Lapdog raises numerous vicious attacks on women at BCA (I am talking mean-spirited and vicious) and supplies the internet with reams of hateful innuendo--never of course mentioning their own cover-up of these key facts. And lets not forget that it was Ministry Watchman that posted the documents raising issues of adultery so this subject could be discussed by the world. Now that they have been exposed as liars, who hid critical facts from the general public, who doctored documents, who attacked innocent people, and who spread gossip---and lets not forget this---who compromised all their integrity by turning their site into the personal web tool of Jennifer Epstein (whose credibility has been annihilated by her own words and actions)---NOW, they want to shut down discussion on the fact that Jennifer and Mark were fighting for 13 years over her sin.

Fallacy Slayer sees a big, BIG, problem with this one!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, Ministry Watchman is no more. They are not a watchman of anything. They are now merely an extension of the Epstein household. They have staked their whole reputation on two excommunicants known (and now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt) for lying and deception. They believed that Doug Phillips counseled Ligonier Ministries in their lawsuit against Frank Vance, which was proven to be an outright lie by the VFM board (Read the VFM board statement). Since they had worked tirelessly to bring down Ligonier they thought they could bring down Phillips too! They have risked everything over a couple that spent more than a decade fighting like cats and dogs over the wife's adultery. Even now they could save face, by recognizing that they have a tiger by the tail. I want to believe they were simply duped, but at this point they have the facts and appear committed to linking their integrity with the Epstein’s. Charles (I mean Jennifer Epstein) Fisher is now promising that there is going to be several more exposes on Phillips all with “primary source” documents in the future. Fallacy Slayer wants to know how can anyone believe anything she writes or says after everything she has said so far has been proven categorically false.

It's over. Ministry Watchman is over.

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Evidence of the Epstein's Supterfuge

2006-12-08T07:03:00.000-08:00

Mike Metzler has contacted us and asked if we could post the orginial bogus email that Ministry Watchman sent out with the intentional purpose to deceive people into believing that it was from Vision Forum. Take a look for yourself folks:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Doug Phillips, Family Man, Sabotages Marriage
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:39:00 -0600
From: V F
To:
"

Doug Phillips, Vision Forum Family Man Sabotages Marriage
http://ministrywatchman.com/?p=50

In a day of intense public scrutiny and criticism of nearly all things
Christian, Doug Phillips may be the most influential under-the-radar
Christian leader that you need to know more about. Best known for his
Vision Forum catalog — a colorful collection of apparently innocuous
family friendly products mailed to more than a million people each
autumn — Doug Phillips uses the wealth generated by his for-profit
sales, as well as donations from the public, to promote his vision on
controversial issues including education (home education is the only
Biblical method), birth control (wrong in all circumstances), politics
(a vote for either Kerry or Bush was a sin), and the roles of husbands
and wives (hyper-Patriarchy at home and at church). Doug Phillips
first came to the attention of those of us at Ministry Watchman when
he publicly defended his buddy, R.C. Sproul, Jr., defrocked after
confessing to ecclesiastical tyranny and the theft and illegal use of
a church denomination's tax-ID number. Our curiosity was further
piqued when we learned of Doug Phillips' behind-the-scenes counsel of
Ligonier Ministries in its unbiblical lawsuit against Christian
blogger, Frank Vance. These two incidents inspired a Ministry Watchman
investigation of Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. Our investigation is
still ongoing (please email us with any relevant information), but it
has already produced enough information for several compelling
articles that you won't want to miss. The first, an exposé of how Doug
Phillips' family practices have not matched his family preaching,
begins below. — MW ...

Read the entire letter here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, I ask once again how can we believe anything these people say??????

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Tactic and History

2006-12-07T21:56:00.000-08:00

The act of the Epsteins is not new, as is stated in the Boerne Christian Assembly declaration:

It is a strategic tactic, the goal of which appears to be to confuse uninvolved third parties and to deflect attention from the real sin of the couple and the due process of accountability brought against them by a covenanting body that knows them very well and has walked with them for many years.

In sum, their ongoing behavior has been consistent with some of the very issues for which they were excommunicated by the BCA congregation without a single vote in opposition.

The pattern of the Epstein’s has been consistent: Wife complains about husband being angry and unkind. Husband is angry about lack of submission, strong will, and issue of infidelity. Wife accuses husband of being unstable. Husband grows angrier. Wife lords over husband with words of repentance but no fruit and condemns husband for his sin. Both are confronted for sin. Wife feigns innocent, helpless, abused one. Husband runs to the aid of wife, unites in cause and declares himself to be the problem. Wife gloats in self-righteousness. This pattern is repeated over and over again – the man is emasculated.

This should be apparent even in their offered defense. Jen leads the charge. Jen is the voice. Mark says, yes ma’am. And, he is shamed before all as Jennifer offers her cavalier account of “The Parable of the Bed.” They spread their story abroad and then complain when people talk of it? They have sewn discord with one another, in a church, in a community, and now seek to go abroad. The man if further shamed before all, and Jennifer continues to sew her seeds of division.

Jennifer’s nonchalant attitude about something for which one should be ashamed (forgiven or not) should provide insight into the home of the Epsteins.

Do you see the fruit of the Spirit in her tone, accounts, or rehearsal of her sin? Why is she first in her cause and not her husband if so much unity now exists? If there is unity how is this helping their marriage – as she leads the fight for the family? What is going on here? On the one hand Jennifer is said to be this sweat, peaceful, submissive wife, who causes no trouble and doesn’t sin in her marriage, and on the other hand she is the outspoken tactical attorney lodging an attack? Can you image living with this woman? Have you not read the tone of her attitude?

Oh, but this is not kind you say. This is not Christian or loving to speak of them this way. These are the facts! The facts of their marriage and interaction with one another are not Christ-like! It is their story which is not loving. It is their home which has fallen apart. It is their children who are being lost! Speaking of these issues has been their choice – they have brought this before the world! Why? Because they don’t want to be held accountable. Boerne Christian Assembly’s comments are discreet. Jennifer and Mark have desired to publish abroad and then complain it all happened. They have forsaken their family for rebellion.

What should be desired? Repentance not to be repented of - bring forth fruit of repentance, which embraces the judgments of God:

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. (Ps 19:7-9)

The Epsteins are still in rebellion, and they’ve taken their temper tantrum to the streets and beyond.

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. (Rom 16:17-18)

Signed,

Sniffin

Moderator's Comment

2006-12-07T17:30:00.000-08:00

Among other misrepresentations, Ministry Watchman accused this site, STILL FED UP, of "filthy language." While the previous site, dedicated to this current cause, did contain a word, which is less than comely, the articles and commentary of this site bear no signs or evidence of "filthy language." To the contrary, we have attempted to maintain a civil environment void of expletives. However, STILL FED UP has received multiple comments from one claiming to be Natasha Epstein, knowing private details, who curses like a sailor – we have had to screen such comments. An attempt to bolster the Epstein's credibility and question this site due to crass speech or irreverent tone is absurd – re-read Jen's account of the bed of adultery for a reminder of their cavalier speech.

S.J.

Jennifer Epstein’s Own Private Legal System

2006-12-07T12:39:00.000-08:00

Fallacy back again….

What in the world is Jen talking about? BCA leaders breaking a “privileged” communication about Jen’s adultery? Oh please!!!. This is yet just another example of Jen Epstein—minister of propaganda—Internet Terrorist—openly lying to the general public.

Fallacy Slayer wants to know if Jennifer has any idea what a “privilege” is? Obviously she is not dealing with any “privilege” in the Bible, since no such privilege exists. In fact, the Bible requires ongoing sins to be dealt with (Which is what BCA did). If people don’t deal with them, the people are to be brought before the church and corrected for their sins (Which is what BCA did). If they won’t hear the church, they are to be kicked out. (Matt 18) (Which is what BCA did).
Did they really think they could go to many witnesses for counsel, spill the beans of their sordid family crisis, both continue to sin on the very subject matter related to the adultery, and then prevent the leaders that they went to from holding them accountable for addressing the very issues? Fallacy Slayer is beginning to see some problems… Are they suggesting that church discipline may not involve addressing relevant facts? (By the way, can you imagine the kicking and screaming they would have done if they had been disciplined by BCA and no facts had been presented to the congregation---you can’t have it both ways Jen!)

Fallacy Slayer is going to ask again if this just another example of an Epstein legal threat? Yes, the same Epstein’s that hypocritically whined for months on the internet about how wrong it is for Christians to sue Christians, after they had themselves threatened leaders at BCA (see BCA document) with legal threats and then attempted extortion. News Flash for all those who may have forgotten: The Epstein’s NO longer have the protection of 1 Corthinians 6 as Excommunicants.
Fallacy Slayer and the others have been pointing these issues out for the last week and a half. However, over at the Blind Ministry Lapdog of the Epstein’s site they won’t even allow discussion of these issues.

Well obviously, now they are claiming that some supposed legal right has been violated—a clergyman-communicant privilege. Kind of like the attorney/client privilege. The problem here is that THEY DON’T HAVE THE FIRST IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT! They are literally making things up. Nobody has a “copyright” or “ecclesiastical privilege” to get counsel from a group of church leaders and then never, ever have their sins exposed if they continue in them.

You can do the google searches for yourself folks. Fallacy Slayer did. (Just like Jennifer does when she talks like a lawyer on her site) Here is what you will discover—the clergy privilege (where it even applies) prevents ordained ministers like Roman Catholic Priests from violating the rules of their Church by being compelled to testify on confidential matters, it does not prevent them from testifying. Also, it applies to a secular court, not a church. Also, it never even applies when there are multiple people present or exposed to the facts.

Is Jennifer suggesting that she or Mark were alone with Phillips and that they revealed this “big secret” to no one but him. This is really, really hard to believe. It is especially hard to believe given the fact that all the evidence, which she is in and she has revealed to indicate that there were always multiple parties involved in meetings with the two of them. That is what the documents (some of which have now been revealed to be dishonestly doctored by Jennifer to mislead people into thinking there was only one person) indicate! (See some of Fallacy Slayer’s other post for discussions on this point) Let’s just make sure we keep dealing with the actual facts folks, and not the fantasies of Jennifer Epstein.

Fallacy Slayer would also like to point out that beyond this absurd privilege claim is that fact that Jennifer is her own worst enemy. She cannot control herself, so she spreads information about her own adultery to hundreds and hundreds of people---now thousands---through her letters and now the Internet.

Folks, isn’t it clear that we are dealing with bitter people that will do just about anything for vengeance? Fallacy Slayer thinks it is VERY CLEAR!!!!!

I’m just the Fallacy Slayer

Jen Epstein Tells all of San Antonio, and then The World About Her Adultery

2006-12-07T07:30:00.000-08:00

Well folks, Fallacy Slayer back again to point out some important points and set the record straight about Jen Epstein telling the world all about her adultery. There is no mention of Jen Epstein’s adultery in the BCA document. Read the document for your self folks. www.boernechristianassembly.org. I couldn’t find it in there. The BCA document mentions a lot of serious sins, many I would guess were related to the ongoing, never-ending battles over her adultery, but there is no mention of the adultery. Hmmm??? This isn’t looking good to the Fallacy Slayer.

Also, BCA apparently had to deal with the issue directly for years (according to their statement) and then at the time of her excommunication, had to present the facts. I have yet to see one shred of evidence that they said or did anything inappropriate here. How about all of you?

Fallacy Slayer will state once again that the question remains: How did the world know about Jen’s adultery? The answer: They learned about it from Jennifer herself.

What? Yes, that’s right, the world learned about it from Jennifer herself.
Most people know that after covering up the real issues related to her sins in the first article that Jen Epstein/Charles Fisher wrote and sent around the country, that in her second article she attached documents mentioning her adultery. Do you understand what is happening here---Jen Epstein brought this information to the Internet. Oh, she diminished it and minimized it—but she leaked it to the Internet.

Fallacy Slayer wants to point out what some people might not understand. Before this happened, Jen had already spread the news through her own community in Texas. Why did she do this? Because she was angry at her discipline. Just how did she do it? Well, she drafted a seventeen page letter demanding that the men and women of BCA repent to her and then gave guidelines to specific men and women for how they must go about repenting to her. Can you believe this folks??? Is this what the Bible requires of those whose excommunicate someone? That they then repent to the excommunicant? Fallacy Slayer is having a hard time understanding this one.

One of her complaints was that she had been excommunicated for ongoing sins related to her adultery. She thought that was unfair—so she told the world. In fact, she sent the seventeen page letter to many people (that’s how we got a copy of it), passed it around the community, and, of course, it continued to be passed around the community. I have been hearing about this story for a long time and so have others not related to BCA. This meant that more and more people were talking about Jennifer Epstein’s adultery and the facts of her adultery. Frankly, I can barely believe how restrained those BCA people are. They did not spell this out in their formal statement.

Jennifer, on the other hand is shameless.

Inquiring minds want to know why hasn’t anyone else pointed this FACT out?

I’m just the Fallacy Slayer

Introduction to this sordid affair.

2006-12-06T23:32:00.000-08:00

Editor's Note: We have modified the date and time stamp of this post so it will remain at the top of the blog throughout the day. Once you have read it please scroll down to make sure you don't miss any of the other honest commentary here at Still Fed UP.

We want to thank Mike Metzler for his evenhanded commentary over at Pooh's Think and we encourage you to drop over and read it for yourself.

If you do, make sure that you come back and check on Fallacy Slayer's comments on the whole sordid affair.

Finally I want to remind everyone who is reading through the mud, neither Mike Metzler, his Pooh's Think or the writers here at Still Fed Up are associated with BCA or its leadership.

S.J.
--------------------

"I reported on how the Epstein family arrived at Boerne Christian Assembly with a
marriage that was basically sound, although not perfect." - Charles Fisher

"Jen stressed to Beall that since Mark was already so angry, she did everything she could to keep the peace, and not invite more anger." - Charles Fisher

"Furthermore, Section C of the Statement addresses sin in Jen’s life from 1989, from before she was a Christian, and from which she fully repented in 1990, when she came to know the Lord." - Charles Fisher

"to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted "
Definition of Repent From Crosswalk.com's Online Hebrew Lexicon"

In the last few days we have used many different tones and styles here at Still Fed UP. Sometimes sarcastic, sometimes hyperbolic but now as we continue to defend an ever widening circle of our friends and acquaintances I want to be serious. I want to be reserved and candid.

In light of the above quotes I want to set the stage for the rest of the discussion. It really is an introduction of sorts, a lens, which gives you a glimpse into the Epsteins as they were during their membership at BCA.

I am going to make an appeal to your emotions, but don't worry this is not a guilt trip or an illogical appeal, it is an appeal to your heart.

Indulge me for a moment.

I want to talk about love. Love and forgiveness. All of us who have the love of a spouse know what is it to fail those we love. We sin against our husbands and wives with our words and our deeds. We have feet of clay. Perhaps we even persist in our sin for a period of time. Eventually when we truly repent we seek to console and be consoled by the one we love whom we have been estranged from during our journey in sin.

I've done it myself.

I also know what the writer of the Psalms meant when he said in Psalm 32 "Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered. " and again later " And shout for joy, all you upright in heart! " I know the feeling of relief when my wife gives me the comfort of forgiveness.

Consider all of that in light of one Jennifer Epstein.

She has admitted to committing adultery. Her fruit of repentance?

Keeping the bed of adultery.

Folks I am not speaking metaphorically. She literally kept the bed in which she violated her marriage vows. In spite of her husbands pleas to the contrary.

Her reasoning?

Good stewardship.

In fact the Epsteins had and fought about the bed through most of the time that they were members and under the care and discipline of Boerne Christian Assembly.

(SWORDBEARER'S NOTE: What I am about to say is in no way a vindication of anyone who at anytime threatens violence against their spouse or behaves in a manner contrary to the Word of God )

Perhaps Mark's fits of violent rage, though not condonable, begin to make a certain amount of sense. In fact the word of God tells us to expect this behavior from men in Mark's position.

Proverbs 6:32-35 says this

Whoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding; He who does so destroys his own soul. Wounds and dishonor he will get, And his reproach will not be wiped away. For jealousy is a husband's fury; Therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance. He will accept no recompense, Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts

The fact the Epsteins have a marriage today is probably due to that members of BCA prevailing upon Jennifer to finally get rid of the bed.

I can only imagine Mark's relief upon returning home the day he found out the bed was gone.

As much as I would like for it to, the story doesn't end there.

After being pressed to give up the bed of adultery, Jennifer apparently gave the wooden parts of the bed to their son for crafts. I do not know the details and I will not speculate as to what he made or why she did it, as this is entirely too serious a matter.

Ponder with me, if you will, the emotions that you would have felt in Mark's position when he found out that the wooden projects his son had been making of late were the pieces and parts of the bed that had plagued his household for so long, and were now decorating the WHOLE house.

Would you have been angry?
Would you have been irrational?
Would you have

"talked constantly of killing people"?
or have been "fantasizing of killing someone in a particular group," maybe the group to which the other party in the adultery belonged ?

Remember what Proverbs told us -

For jealousy is a husband's fury; Therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance. He will accept no recompense, Nor will he be appeased though you give many gifts (emph mine)

(SWORDBEARER'S SECOND DISCLAIMER - Neither Still Fed Up OR the Bible condone any lack of self control, threatening your family or any other wicked behavior. The previous reasoning was simply to demonstrate the mechanics of the relationships in dispute, not to justify it.)

Yet this is the nature of the marriage Mr. Fisher wants us to believe is "basically sound." This is how Mr. Fisher wants us to think Mrs. Epstein does "everything she could to keep the peace, and not invite more anger" and THIS is the woman that Mr. Fisher would have us understand had "fully repented in 1990" of "sin in Jen’s life from 1989" although she kept that bed in one form or another for years after the sin.

Mrs. Epstein in the second article insists she was following Jesus admonition to obey His commands. She seems to have forgotten one namely:

Matthew 22:39
And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

I would submit to you that her husband is her neighbor.

All of this is the true context from which the entire situation must be read.

Now I want you to go back and read the BCA statement, I want you to go and read the documentation that Mr. Fisher and Mrs. Epstein so helpfully provided, finally consider the first and second parts of this little saga as they tell it.

I trust it looks a little different now.

To the writers at Ministry Watchman I leave this admonition from Matthew 7:

16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Proverbs 10:18&19
Whoever hides hatred has lying lips, And whoever spreads slander is a fool. In the multitude of words sin is not lacking, But he who restrains his lips is wise.

Proverbs 10:23 To do evil is like sport to a fool, But a man of understanding has wisdom

I trust you can see why I am
"Still Fed Up"

S.J.

"The Parable of the Bed"

2006-12-06T22:19:00.003-08:00

Fools make a mock at sin (Pr 14:9)

Jennifer chimes in at Jen’s Gems with a parable regarding her bed of adultery and sin. Frankly, I could not believe my eyes as I read this account in its irreverent form. For convenience I have reposted her parable in its entirety along with commentary that follows. The subtitle to this post is in no way intended to be a subtle introduction, but an insightful precursor to this cavalier account of circumstance which should have been reflected upon with great sobriety.

Once upon a time, there was a bed. It was a lovely, grand piece of furniture, but it was still just a bed. The bed served its purpose well and provided many nights of refreshing sleep. Then there was sin. The bed itself did not commit sin, but there was sin that took place in the bed, so the bed needed discipline.

The owner of the bed made a declaration, "The bed shall lose its mattress and all its linens." And it was so. And life for the bed was good.

However, the bed's master changed his mind several years later and decided that the bed had not been disciplined severely enough. A new declaration was made, "The bed shall have a different style of mattress." And it was so. And life for the bed was good once again.

Not entirely satisfied, though, another declaration was forthcoming, "The bed shall be put up on the trading block for auction." And it was so. But weeks passed and no one bid on the bed. And so the bed went back to being a bed again.

A couple years later, the angry master declared, "The bed shall be put out of its misery." But no one wanted the bed that was now 20 years old. It had served its usefulness and needed to be put out to pasture with all the other old beds.

Tired of the ever-changing declarations, the master's wife decided to become a judge and sentenced the bed to immediate execution. The bed was then chopped to pieces.

In its second life, the bed was then reincarnated into a workshop in the garage, while the master and his wife were relegated to sleeping on the floor. The master and his lady were very pleased with the bed's new purpose.

And the master and his lady lived happily ever after – well, after they commissioned a new bed. And life for the new bed was good.

A couple of years later, however, the master was indeed surprised to find that the copyrighted version of his story of the bed had been strangely warped and twisted, and was now being produced without authorization by young men with no scruples for honesty. Knowing the original story had only been told to his spiritual shepherd, the master and his lady were grieved to hear that their ecclesiastical privileges of confidentiality had thus been violated. And life for the pastor was not good.

Rather than a sober account of her side of the story, Jen rehearses this disgraceful report in patronizing tone. Does this sound like someone who is remorseful? Does this sound like someone who is grieved over sin? Does this sound like someone who is repentant? Or, does this sound like someone who is pompous and arrogant?

Jen herself has something to say about such an attitude? She has commented at length regarding her expertise in evaluation of the fruit of repentance:

Sunday, November 19, 2006

Two Sides of Forgiveness

I know of one church for instance, where there were multiple adulteries (one woman, seven pastors) and all eight people continue to "fellowship" together because they said, "I'm sorry." Confession without repentance is not enough. A natural consequence should have been the loss of fellowship for all and removal from the ministry for all the pastors, at a bare minimum. Yet, these eight people and their spouses all continue to go to this church every Sunday, "fellowshipping" together. Can you feel the tension? There is no repentance here. These spouses might have forgiven the adulterers, but the offenders have not received that forgiveness yet, as they have not truly repented. Where is their shame?...

One example of an unrepentant heart is pride. In the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee was so full of pride that he couldn't be forgiven that day. The tax collector, on the other hand, was so humbled by his own sense of depravity, that he was able to receive the forgiveness that comes with repentance. Sweet forgiveness…

Romans tell us to "note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them." See clearly who is causing a division in the church, who is offending. Do offenders cause division in the church? Always! And offenses are always contrary to the doctrine we have learned, so we are told to avoid them, not to fellowship with them. This is hard, even harsh, but those who refuse to repent should not continue to fellowship as if nothing happened just because they say, "I'm sorry." There must be repentance in order to receive forgiveness.

Proverbs tells us that "the way of the unfaithful is hard," which is what helps him come to repentance. Let's not interfere with the hard way he sometimes needs.

As Jen asked, can you feel the tension in the house? Did you read any shame? Does Jen’s account sound like someone who is repentant? Or, does Jen sound like someone who has just said “I’m sorry”?

Furthermore, Jen quotes from Romans and counsels those who find themselves in the position of observing one who causes divisions to avoid them:

“Do offenders cause division in the church? Always!”

"I'm sorry." There must be repentance in order to receive forgiveness…

Proverbs tells us that "the way of the unfaithful is hard," which is what helps him come to repentance. Let's not interfere with the hard way he sometimes needs.

Sounds biblical! Sounds like what Boerne Christian Assembly did! They separated themselves from those who caused divisions – from those who are still causing divisions.

Sniffin

Women as Doormats? I Don't Think So!!!!!!!

2006-12-06T14:09:00.000-08:00

Jen Epstein has gone to great lengths to say the women of BCA are mindless doormats. She also said that women are forbidden from speaking, but according to the post she states that women (Beall, Reba, and Kathleen) used words to respond to her? Further, she says that Beall was not allowed to offer any theological opinion apart from her husband. However, she met with her alone on six different occasions according to her own testimony and also sent her an email from her own email account discussing theological matters. Here's the email which to me sounds pretty intelligent? However, you be the judge:

"You said that this new belief in sinlessness might change. I pray that it does. If it does, will you still emphatically assert that you have not sinned recently in your marriage and that you did not sin in the meeting with the men last week? You must realize the implications of the beliefs you espouse. If your doctrine changes, will you start to sin again? Will you then realize that you did sin during the time you held to this doctrine of perfectionism? Or will you have stopped sinning only while you held to this doctrine?"

Mmmmmm. Notice that Beall uses the word "men" and not "man." Sounds like multiple witlessness to me. Another problem with their story to be pointed out in another post. Notice also, that she uses the word "doctrine" in her discussion with Jen? I thought Beall wasn't even allowed to discuss these kind of issues??? "Belief in sinlessness" which is another theological point. So what I am trying to understand is how can anyone believe these statements from a known liar? The logic just isn't adding up, folks. Isn't this just another red herring argument to try and discredit a duly constituted local church that loved this couple enough to hold them accountable to the very Church Covenant they agreed to be held accountable to when they VOLUNTARILY joined the Church?

I'm just the Fallacy Slayer...

Procedural Due Process

2006-12-06T13:21:00.000-08:00

Fallacy Slayer back again to ask the question: I wonder how Mark and Jennifer like the fact that Mike Metzler is now using the same standard to Judge their story that they praised him for using against Phillips in the beginning of this sad saga? In fact, Mike is even apply this standard towards Charles Fisher, Frank Vance and Ministry Watchman. In fact, Mike says this about the Epstein hit piece:

"I think you will find that most of your judgments, if in fact you have formulated some judgments, are in fact grounding in very little if in nothing at all...If you boil out the actual facts that have been reasonably established, or those facts apparently not disputed by either party, you are not left with much to tell any kind of story at all"

Well, what was that standard Mark Epstein praised Mike for using? It was his comment on November 28, 2006 post: Two or Three Witnesses: Is there a different "biblical" standard for tyrants? http://livingbytruth.blogspot.com/

Well, I wonder if he is still going to praise Mike for using that kind of scrunity on his wife's story about their experience????

Again, every document that Jennifer has produced by BCA shows there were more than one witness to what Doug Phillips did. In fact, she had to docture one of the PDF documents in order to make it look like Doug acted as a one man show. Further, every document she has presented testifies to the fact that their were multiple witnesses. So Jennifer, where's your proof that Doug acted alone? It certainly can't be from you because you are not an impartial witness--you are the accused. In case you have forgotten the names she listed in her latest diatribe they are:

Bob Welch
Bob Sarratt
Mo Gill
Richard and Reba Short
Kathleen

I'm no math expert, but I can count, and that's more than 1 man or woman witness. Doesn't sound like proceedural injustice to me!

Again, how can we believe anything these people say? Where's the journalist intregrity over at Ministry Watchman? I guess they are blind after all?

Others Can See Clearly Now

2006-12-06T12:08:00.000-08:00

Well folks, Fallacy Slayer back again to point out once again that we are not the only ones who see issues with the Excommunicated Epstein's story. Ol Doug Wilson has now chimed in and said a few witty things on the matter. The line I really appreciated is this one:

"But if you answer the central charges forcefully, cogently, and scripturally, then this gives any fair-minded individuals who hear about it all that they need. "Okay, this is clearly a Proverbs 18:17 situation."

http://www.dougwils.com/

(Since we live in an biblical illiterate cultural I'll provide the full text to Proverbs 18:17
He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.)

This site was set up with the specific intention to point out the fallacies of the Internet Terrorist because the "Sunnis" or the "Shia" (which ever one you want to label them) over at Blind Ministry Watchdog were not dealing with the "forcefully, cogent and scriptural" arguments of BCA. This site is not going to become a place where we debate the merits of the Epstein's case because they have been dealt with by the local church. Again, the local Church is innocent and the Epstein's are guilty.

I have issued a press release outlining the simple and clear facts of the case last week. I will list them again since we all have short memories:

1. Ministry Watchman received and published the reports of Mark and Jennifer Epstein, a couple excommunicated for numerous sins including gross unrepentant lying, with no attempt to contact the local church before writing their article. They assumed the guilt of the local church and the innocence of the excommunicated. In so doing they broke the law of God.

2. Ministry Watchman lied to the world about their attempt to give an opportunity to respond prior to publication of their article. Exodus 20:16

3. Ministry Watchman has broken the law of God by falsely claiming Doug Phillips "counseled" Ligonier Ministries in their lawsuit against Frank Vance. Exodus 20:16

4. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by bringing accusations against elders without witnesses in violation of 1 Timothy 5:19

5. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by claiming that Doug Phillips acted independently in excommunicating the Epstein's. Exodus 20:16

6. Ministry Watchman has proclaimed that they are antinomian by arguing that they are not bound by the law of God when it comes to holding themselves to the same standard it seeks to hold Doug Phillips to.

7. Ministry Watchman actively deceived Christians by presenting an email that looked like it was from VF. Read the statement at www.boernechristianassembly.org

Another former VF intern weighs in...sorta

2006-12-06T08:20:00.000-08:00

C.S. Hayden (another Former VF intern) has some pithy things to say about anonymous Internet typists on a "moral crusade" who use fake email addresses.

Yes gentle readers I am aware of the irony.

Ironically fed up

S.J.

Breaking News...

2006-12-05T23:38:00.000-08:00

Well sports fans, Fallacy Slayer wanted to bring to everyone's attention that Michael Metzler over at Poohsthink.com is beginning to see all the fallacies in Jen Eptein and the Blind Ministry Watchdog site. I encourage everyone to read Mr. Metzler's insightful analysis of many of Jen's lies. http://poohsthink.com/.

In fact, Mr. Metzler points out that "[Still Fed Up has raised numerous problems already that they [Ministry Lapdog of the Epsteins]refuse to address; rather, they just slander the nature of the content of Still Fed Up. And as I have argued above, given the unsubstantiated nature of this narrative and the BCA’s otherwise presumed innocence, nothing further than their strong denial of allegations was necessary.]"

Stayed tuned to this site for continual analysis of all the lies, as well as observations on the tactics by these first rate internet assasains.

I have made some brief comments in regard to the tactics of the terrorist at the lapdog site a couple of days ago and I bring them to your attention again:

Lie about the leadership of BCA by pretending that it is a one man show. This lie was exposed completely not only by their own inconsistencies, doctored documents, and deceptions, but later by the BCA statement. Also, make up lies about what Doug Phillips said to make to him look really, really mean. Appeal to every woman who has ever been abused, by making up stories that nobody who knows this guy believes, and for which there are absolutely no witnesses whatsoever (because you can't witness fantasies that take place in a bitter woman's mind). This allows you to emotionally manipulate the type of people who believe what the National Enquirer says. Also, stay away from facts, but borrow words like "misogynist" from the radical feminists movement to rally every disgruntled person available. Also, pretend to reveal secret information about the family life (from the times they had you in the home and were showing kindness to you) so you can publicly vomit on a woman you hate with every fiber in your body---Beall Phillips. Then ridicule an entire congregation of women by making them look like brainless lemmings.

It seems that Mr. Metzler is starting to agree with what we have been saying all along. My guess is others are starting to see the light too.

Stay tuned

2006-12-05T20:59:00.000-08:00

Stay tuned...
S. J. will be working late into the night to bring you some initial thoughts about Jennifer Epstein's latest entry in her ongoing slander campaign against BCA.

S. J. "Now I am REALLY fed up"

“Church” According to Jennifer

2006-12-04T23:06:00.000-08:00

Charles Fisher of Ministry Watchman and Jennifer Epstein of the Biblically Excommunicated Epsteins continue to question the legitimacy of Boerne Christian Assembly, its leadership, and specifically Doug Phillips.

Jennifer and Mark under the name Jackson acknowledge multiple elders present during their counseling sessions with the men and women of Boerne Christian Assembly. Jennifer and Mark hide the multiple signatures to the “Guidelines for Accountability” document they doctored. “In fact, at one point their behavior was so extreme that a shepherd from a nearby congregation who also had counseled this family strongly advised Doug Phillips to get a court restraining order for his physical protection, a recommendation he declined.” Multiple elders/pastors from multiple churches have counseled them regarding their sin, excommunication, repentance, and restoration. And the Epsteins themselves were happy to attend, acknowledge, and submit to the ecclesiastical leadership of Boerne Christian Assembly for five years, until they were biblically confronted for sin and held accountable for their actions. Then, the legitimacy of the “church” was questioned.

Jennifer has some thoughts about “Church” which she offers as part of her “ministry”:

Thursday, June 01, 2006
The Old Paths
Church was where you found Christians on the Lord's Day, Rather than in the garden, on the creek bank, on the golf course, Or being entertained somewhere else.

Saturday, May 27, 2006
Character Treasures
For church right now, our family is watching SM Davis videos.

Sunday, February 26, 2006
Weekly Recipe: Cabbage Kugel
This is one of our family's favorites, which we had for Sunday Dinner after our home church this morning!

Now, apparently for the Epsteins, “church” is staying at home with family and watching videos – no elders at all. Though Jennifer encourages returning to “the old paths” including attending Church (one can only assume she is speaking of a biblically constituted church with actual office holders) apparently that sort of encouragement is for others. Antinomian, unaccountable, independence is apparently “what [Jen] wish[es] an older woman would have shared with [her] when [she] was younger.”

Consideration:

Do we really think so little of the Church of Jesus Christ? Has God not established the organized church with authority and oversight? When those reporting for Ministry Watchman are willing to propagate a lie as an introduction to Charles Fisher’s article, and Jennifer Epstein’s own words expose her hypocritical standard, why should we believe she is truthful about anything? Why is the excommunication by a lawfully constituted Church, the unanimous censure of the Epsteins by its members, and the counsel of multiple elders in multiple assemblies rejected for an inconsistent, excommunicated lying woman’s pottage of bitterness? Are we that gullible?

Appeal:

Epsteins, please repent and turn to the Lord. Acknowledge your rebellion, repent of your ways, model character in humility to your family, and be restored.

Signed,

Sniffin

I'm Confused

2006-12-04T19:08:00.000-08:00

Fallacy Slayer is having a hard time understanding what to believe when it comes to the Epstein's allegations. For example, Jennifer Epstein alleges that Doug Phillips is a tyrant and a leader of a cult because he held her to account for her gross sins. Sins such as "habitual dishonesty and lying, for railings and reviling against both her husband and church authorities, for cruelty, gossip, and attempted division of the brethren" as well as "novel and unbiblical variation of the doctrine of sinless perfectionism." So what Fallacy Slayer wants to know is why is Jennifer Epstein praising Doug Phillips on her blog of Monday, September 25, 2006

Those Who Confront Ligonier

"Doug Phillips, who was my elder for several years, taught me that God’s Word addresses every situation in life, but that rather than looking for a single
verse to support our "beliefs," we must look at the whole counsel of God to
determine precisely what God wants us to do and how we are to live our daily
lives "

I read this statement on her blog and it seems to me she is praising her former elder for teaching her sound doctrine. Doesn't sound like a cult to me?

A former VF intern who is sick of all the lies

2006-12-04T18:29:00.000-08:00

"Doug Phillips makes good money. He can afford to pay people and pay them generously. But he evidently works hard at keeping all his money. One of the ways he does so is by oppressing the workman and not paying him. That takes some incredible arrogance for him to think that he's so special — such royalty — that people should work for him for free."Frank Vance

"As a former VF intern and someone who know Doug Phillips character (which is above reproach), as well as the character of the "Jackson's" (which is one of lying, gossip, rumor spreading, division, and malicious hatred) I can say for a fact that this claim is nothing but a pack of lies. Doug Phillips is a very generous man, and anyone who knows him or has worked for him (as I have) will tell you that. If you want the truth, why not go to the source instead of listening to an excommunicated couple who has a long history of lying and divisive behavior. "

A former VF intern who is sick of all the lies

Let Facts Be Submitted to a Candid World

2006-12-04T12:49:00.000-08:00

Well folks, I thought it would be good to review the facts again before we get the next installment of lies from Blind Ministry Watchman because it appears their binoculars are a little fuzzy. Again, to reinterate here are the facts of the matter:

1. Ministry Watchman received and published the reports of Mark and Jennifer Epstein, a couple excommunicated for numerous sins including gross unrepentant lying, with no attempt to contact the local church before writing their article. They assumed the guilt of the local church and the innocence of the excommunicated. In so doing they broke the law of God.

2. Ministry Watchman lied to the world about their attempt to give an opportunity to respond prior to publication of their article. Exodus 20:16

3. Ministry Watchman has broken the law of God by falsely claiming Doug Phillips "counseled" Ligonier Ministries in their lawsuit against Frank Vance. Exodus 20:16

4. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by bringing accusations against elders without witnesses in violation of 1 Timothy 5:19

5. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by claiming that Doug Phillips acted independently in excommunicating the Epstein's. Exodus 20:16

6. Ministry Watchman has proclaimed that they are antinomian by arguing that they are not bound by the law of God when it comes to holding themselves to the same standard it seeks to hold Doug Phillips to.

7. Ministry Watchman actively deceived Christians by presenting an email that looked like it was from VF.

Read the statement at www.boernechristianassembly.org

Fallacy Slayer

More Rage from the Heathen

2006-12-04T09:08:00.000-08:00

Jennifer Epstein and the Blind Ministry lapdog group keep on spreading more lies. For example, they keep on claiming the Phillips family doesn't pay their helpers. Where did Frank Vance and Charles Fisher get this information from? None other than a proven lier by the name of Jennifer Epstein because anyone else who actually knows the family would never say such a thing! Also, they keep talking about "numerous others" who haven't been paid? Again, I ask where do these people get there information? Jennifer Epstein is an excommunicated women who has a proven track record of lying.

As I have stated in another post, their strategy has been this: Lie about the leadership of BCA by pretending that it is a one man show. This lie was exposed completely not only by their own inconsistencies, doctored documents, and deceptions, but later by the BCA statement. Also, make up lies about what Doug Phillips said to make to him look really, really mean. Appeal to every woman who has ever been abused, by making up stories that nobody who knows this guy believes, and for which there are absolutely no witnesses whatsoever (because you can't witness fantasies that take place in a bitter woman's mind). This allows you to emotionally manipulate the type of people who believe what the National Enquirer says. Also, stay away from facts, but borrow words like "misogynist" from the radical feminists movement to rally every disgruntled person available. Also, pretend to reveal secret information about the family life (from the times they had you in the home and were showing kindness to you) so you can publicly vomit on a woman you hate with every fiber in your body---Beall Phillips. Then ridicule an entire congregation of women by making them look like brainless lemmings.

Fallacy Slayer

Frank Vance is Whining Again

2006-12-04T08:58:00.000-08:00

Frank Vance is whining again over at Blind Ministry Watchman about the fact that this site censored his comments in regard to the Epstein's house being out of order and claiming we don't like free speech. Well, if truth be told they have been censoring several of our comments. So because we believe in free true speech we started this site to get the other side of the story out to those people who are tired of all the lies coming from MW and Jennifer Epstein. There's nothing stopping Frank Vance from posting his comments on his site. If they weren't shutting down all our comments they might have an argument. Well, fair is fair, and we have no intention of giving the terrorists at MW more of an opportunity to spread lies here, where they have made it abundantly clear that they are not only going to cover their sin, but block any truthful comments.

Also, it appears that for almost half a week they have had a block out on diverse comments, and only now that they have been exposed for their hypocrisy are whining about "a lack of a level playing" field.

Please read Snifinitout's response to Frank Vance entitled: The Fruit of the Womb-Children Evidence Discipleship They Receive.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we are dealing with anonymous assassins, who don't interview people they slander, who pick on women, who have been caught in dead lies, who have conspired to deceive and then who act like babies when they are not allowed to do the very thing that they do to everyone else. Amazing---they block people with the truth from speaking on their site, and then they complain. Terrorists, who refuse to let others talk? Now demanding to use other people's forums to continue their inconsistencies and lies? Amazing!

Here is my recommendation: Why don't you guys just keep having conversations with yourself and your multiple personalities. I believe Jennifer and Mark have now logged in under a collective seventeen personalities. How's that for integrity.

Fallacy Slayer

Submitted to Ministrywatchman.com

2006-12-04T07:16:00.000-08:00

Morning folks,
TRUST BUT VERIFY proves nothing more than that the folks trying to smear innocent people have done their homework.
Notice they are not (as they claim) interested in dealing with church issues. They are happy with nothing less than smearing every facet of Doug, Beall, and BCA's life public or private.

(I say they because it is my opinion that most if not all of the anonymous comments here on MW against BCA are the "Jacksons" or their "friends"

First we had highly racist comments a few days ago about their friends being the "help," now we are reaching and stretching to make connections between friends that aren't members of BCA and don't live around here. As far as I know the Chanceys aren't even Baptists. So other than vicious gossip and slander I fail to see what Matt's blog or the skin color of Doug's friends has to do with the "Jacksons'" excommunication.

This smacks of Hillary Clinton's scorched earth politics, NOT honest investigation or inquiry.

Jezebel and whore.....was never used. (gasp) There. I said it. NEVER used. All we are seeing is Mr. Fisher,the Jacksons et al. have been searching the net for a few months collecting material that is negative about VF, and Doug P. The Jezebel accusation isn't even original and was just as baseless on November 14th as it is today. It was first leveled by another excommunicant rebel with no witnesses to back it up.

TBV said ""Jezebel," why not also "whore?"" this is known as a non-sequitur . Just because something "feels" right or "seems" right does not mean that it holds up to scrutiny.

Just serving up a helping of truth with breakfast.

S.J.

"In case you're checking I'm ...still fed up!"

Ps. Frank nobody is limiting your free speech. You're still posting here (Miniature Watchdog) quite freely!

A question from Pooh's Think

2006-12-03T22:18:00.000-08:00

Earlier we received the following comment from Michael Metzler who calls Pooh's Think home

Michael Metzler said...

"Thank you for providing a link to this statement of mine, which is taken a little bit out of context. I'm not used to my opponents providing judicious links to my material, which would typically destroy their intended libelous misquoting. But let me get this straight: in your desire to defend your friends at BCA (a noble desire before you have enough evidence), are you going to attempt to defend Ligonier Ministries? That would certainly be an interesting task now that that story has come to a near end and a verdict has clearly been rendered on the world wide web. It certainly would not lend any credence to your more specific concern here. I’m truly curious what you would say about this. I’m sorry if you have addressed this already; I have not yet read everything you have written here.Thanks,Michael Metzler www.poohsthink.com"

S.J. responds

Michael,
There are several things I want to address in your comment. First is the assertion that here at Still Fed Up we are defending our friends at BCA "before we have enough evidence". Michael the evidence is in. BCA has spoken to the case of the Epsteins. BCA is a legitimately constituted church and as such it is the duty of Christians to take the side of legitimate authority over and against slanderous rebels who refuse to hear instruction.

Here at Still Fed Up we presume duly constituted churches are telling the truth and that excommunicants with a reputation for lying (See paragraphs 4, 5, and 6 of the BCA statement) need to repent.

Not the other way around.

When you read BCA's website they could not have been clearer or more charitable about the facts.

WRT your question, I can't help but feel once the dust has settled in this case and Ministry Watchman has been shown to be harboring liars and publishing false reports, it will call into question their word on other things.

I hope this clears things up for you.

S.J.

Why Do the Heathen Rage?

2006-12-03T21:14:00.000-08:00

Well, ladies and gentleman we have been promised by Blind Ministry Watchman that on Monday there's going to be "a lot more" of the story regarding the Jackson Family coming all in an attempt to take down Phillips. All this proves is that Mark and Jennifer Epstein are acting with such vengeance towards the only people who ever tried to love them and hold them to account for what BCA called "gross sin." Their strategy: You can't take down the average family in the pew, or even those members of the church session who are less known. What you have to do is attack the person best known. In this case: target Doug and Beall Phillips. That's right, not only Doug, but Beall--a mother and homemaker to eight children who opened her home and her life to Jennifer Epstein- she must be publicly crucified by the excommunicated couple.

None of this surprises me. It is exactly what the Bible says such people will do. To reiterate again, the "Jackson" couple were lawfully excommunicated for lying. They are just going to keep on raging given the fact that they have been marked as heathen and publicans by BCA. So let them rage. This issue really is a settled one ever since BCA issued their statement on the matter regarding the Jackson Family. In fact, this issue has been settled for almost two years. Two years! According to BCA, the Jackson's have been trying to black mail the leadership ever since. So now that they were not able to divide the local community they have joined hands with other disgruntled, unaccountable renegades in the hope that they will be able to unite behind their computers and bring down Doug Phillips--and Beall, mother of eight children too.

Their strategy has been this: Lie about the leadership of BCA by pretending that it is a one man show. This lie was exposed completely not only by their own inconsistencies, doctored documents, and deceptions, but later by the BCA statement. Also, make up lies about what Doug Phillips said to make to him look really, really mean. Appeal to every woman who has ever been abused, by making up stories that nobody who knows this guy believes, and for which there are absolutely no witnesses whatsoever (because you can't witness fantasies that take place in a bitter woman's mind). This allows you to emotionally manipulate the type of people who believe what the National Enquirer says. Also, stay away from facts, but borrow words like "misogynist" from the radical feminists movement to rally every disgruntled person available. Also, pretend to reveal secret information about the family life (from the times they had you in the home and were showing kindness to you) so you can publicly vomit on a woman you hate with every fiber in your body---Beall Phillips. Then ridicule an entire congregation of women by making them look like brainless lemmings.

Of course, BCA dealt handily with the Epstein/MW swill. An entire congregation confirms that Jennifer and Mark are liars under censure. Jennifer brought allegations and revillings against innocent women like Beall Phillips and other families in the local church. Can you believe that they would go after a man's wife?? Then again we are not dealing with any old couple. We are dealing with a couple so bitter that they have spent two years lying, blackmailing, and rallying as many malcontents as they could to their cause to exact vengeance. Further, MW has proven they can't be trusted by declaring so many false and defamatory statements that we now have a track record by them that everything they say has to be called into question. Read the Press release for a summary of the many reasons everything the Jackson's say is COMPLETELY false.

Fallacy Slayer

Another former VF intern weighs in

2006-12-03T21:06:00.000-08:00

Hot off the presses I received this testimony from another former VF intern.
S.J.
---------------

I too as a former VF intern want to take this opportunity to weigh in concerning "Not that gullible", or should I say Mrs. Epstein's request to weigh in concerning this situation. I was attending BCA during the time of the Epstein's excommunication, and observed on many occasions their divisive and lying ways. The BCA statement is true - there was indeed a plurality of leadership, and the excommunication was far from the "kangaroo court" that the Epsteins and their crowd want you to believe. What I found to be most disgusting of all though is the vitriolic hatred, cruelty, and lies that the Epsteins spewed and have continued to spew at those that sought to help them through prayer, untold hours of counseling, and that loved them enough to confront them when they were wrong.

Signed

Another former VF intern

The Fruit of the Womb – Children Evidence the Discipleship They Receive

2006-12-03T19:15:00.000-08:00

(Commentary on Even if the Epsteins are the Jacksons....why mention their children?)

"Ministers and ecclesiastical leaders inevitably produce followers who emulate the behavior of their leaders." Frank Vance

"Mothers and Fathers inevitably produce children who emulate the behavior of their parents." Sniffinitout

Accusation was hurled at Ian and Sniffinitout for their willingness to expose the sins of the Epsteins and not sit silently by while lies, claims of innocence, slander, mischaracterization, and venom was spewed unchallenged.

Reference to Jennifer Epstein's own article revealing Tim Dick's inconsistencies and lack of biblical discipleship or discipline for his son in the midst of his open sin, and comparing it to the actions of Natasha Epstein (Jennifer's daughter) as evidence of similar neglect in the Epstein household, according to their own reported standard, was viewed as "[a]pples and oranges comparisons".

Referencing such neglect was stated to be a "below-the-belt punch" and an "uncharitable attack".

Not any portion of the article: Even if the Epsteins are the Jacksons....why mention their children? attacks Natasha, ridicules her, or intimates a mean-spirited tone. Quoting Natasha's own words may not be flattering, this certainly is true. But, this is reality and reality is what must be dealt with.

While the Epsteins do not head a Multi-million dollar ministry, they are seeking to gain a position of credibility and honor in the eyes of the public. They are playing the role of poor, wounded, innocent sheep, which have done all they know how to do to just keep things together. And, they've linked up with an organization whose title is "Ministry Watchman." Seems one ought to come to the table with some rather stout credentials and credibility to be able to discern, and reveal supposed tyrants. This is what the Epsteins hope to do as they play their part as "Watchmen." But, they have not been successful as watchmen in their own home. What should lead us to believe they are capable of watching over anyone else?

"None of the BCA clique care one wit for Natasha" Frank Vance

Boerne Christian Assembly's statement speaks for them on this one:

Recognizing that church discipline, like all godly administrations of discipline, is to be an act of love, the families of BCA have for nearly two years been praying for this couple and for their children. It is our heartfelt desire to see love return to their family, hope to their children, and lasting harmony between husband and wife.

As for Sniffit, here are my thoughts, and you can quote me:

I grieve over rebellion which has likely resulted from watching rebellion for years. Mark and Jennifer Epstein have obviously modeled anger, malicious activity towards one another and others, backbiting, fighting, and ultimately rebellion towards God for some time. It is sad to see the fruit of such activity, but we should expect nothing less.

I genuinely pray that God would intervene, prick the hearts of Mark, Jennifer, and Natasha to repent, reconcile with Him, and be restored to fellowship. I pray that the Epsteins other children will not be further spoiled by their parent's vindictive and revolting ways.

May God grant repentance, mercy and restoration. If they are not granted repentance, may they be judged in accordance with God's pleasure.

Frank Vance further stated: "The Epsteins have not always been Christians. Natasha wasn't always raised in a Christian home and taught the Christian faith."

This is true, and is likely true for many of us being exposed to these circumstances. However, this does not change the responsibility of the Epsteins or their children to walk in righteousness and conform to the law of God regardless of circumstances. Of the Epstein's own account, they have been part of some church for at least the last eleven years. The Epsteins have set themselves up as teachers. Jennifer herself states as much on her blog:

"In the spirit of Titus 2, what I wish an older woman would have shared with me when I was younger."

Seems one ought to teach what they are able to model themselves, which brings us back to the original article in question. Why is an expose on Tim Dick's son acceptable to discredit his ability and orthopraxy, but an expose in similar fashion regarding Mark, Jennifer, and Natasha is distasteful and uncharitable? We all agree the circumstances themselves are horrible. The reason for the exposure is to reveal the Epsteins lack of credibility, it's that simple.

If your family was falling apart, if your children were in rebellion, if your daughter was in the midst of sin and proud of it, where would your attention be focused? Where would your energy be spent?

It is indeed obvious that Natasha has been wounded. Modeling further rebellion will certainly not help Natasha embrace reality, submit to authority, or reconcile to God.

May God grant repentance.

Signed,
Sniffinitout

Still fed up

2006-12-03T17:52:00.000-08:00

Yes sports fans, you found us. Pull up a chair and help me welcome the newest addition to the Still Fed UP team.

His name is Fallacy Slayer and he has a penchant for asking tough questions.

In case you are wondering I'm

STILL FED UP

S.J.
----------------------

Inquiring Minds Want to Know?

How many Pseudonyms is Jennifer Epstein using over at Ministry Watchman and here on THIS. site? My count is about 15, but I could be wrong. I also find it really interesting that Jennifer Epstein the "Holy Crusader of Truth" conveniently alluded to the story on Ministry Watchman on her blog by stating:

"His friend and fellow Christian celebrity Doug Phillips, head of Vision Forum Ministries/Inc. and Boerne Christian Assembly, is facing some similar charges. Ministry Watchman has the story, which has generated a high volume of comments in a short time. Please read the account and pray for all involved, but especially the children."

So again as to the "high volume of comments" in a short time Jen, I want to know how many pseudonyms are you using to make most of those comments?

Also, just to be clear Fallacy Slayer is praying for the Epstein's, praying that they will REPENT and seek restitution against those they have slandered and harmed.

Signed
Fallacy Slayer

The Sniff-meister weighs in.

2006-12-03T16:52:00.000-08:00

Lies, Lies, Lies

LIES – Yep, that's a sin (Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Ex 20:16)

Let's define what it is so we don't get confused:

A criminal falsehood; a falsehood uttered for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth. Fiction, or a false statement or representation… To utter falsehood with an intention to deceive, or with an immoral design… To exhibit a false representation; to say or do that which deceives another, when he has a right to know the truth, or when morality requires a just representation…(Webster's 1828 Dictionary)

Well, Jennifer and the ministry brokentimepieceman won't be able to claim sinlessness for this six-month period…

In the opening of Fisher's article at mysterywatchmaker, Fisher claims that Doug Phillips offered behind-the-scenes counsel [to] Ligonier Ministries in its unbiblical lawsuit against Christian blogger, Frank Vance.

The formal statement offered by the Board of Directors for Vision Forum Ministries is explicit:

"one stated impetus for the article was the charge that Doug was involved in "behind-the-scenes counsel of Ligonier Ministries" concerning their lawsuit against a blogger going under the name of Frank Vance. For the record, this statement is false. Neither Doug Phillips nor any member of the Vision Forum staff have ever knowingly communicated with Ligonier Ministries representatives concerning this lawsuit or any lawsuit." (Letter from Vision Forum Board Members)

Conclusion:

Doug Phillips never, never, never, counseled with Ligonier Ministries regarding the Frank Vance law suit.
Charles Fisher has knowingly or unknowingly misrepresented facts.
Charles Fisher was not interested in obtaining the truth as he did not once enquire with Boerne Christian Assembly regarding their position:
"Accusations have been received and disseminated against a duly constituted Christian assembly without adequately consulting with the church leadership and with complete disregard for the biblical pattern for conflict resolution and the proper respect for the local church as required in Scripture." (Board)

Charles Fisher purposely sought to deceive his reading audience by declaring he invited comment from Doug Phillips – his email was sent to 11 minutes (yes, eleven) before posting and disseminating his article.
If Charles Fisher lies from the very preface of his article, attempting to pad his case, what reason do you have to believe any element of his article is truthful?

" Guidelines for Accountability"
The link above, which is the copy the Epsteins themselves offer, over at watchbreaker, has "Oct. 2002" if the upper right-hand corner of the document. The Epsteins were excommunicated in the more recent period of February, 2005. That's three-years of "process"!

And what is due process? Let's look at Matthew 18, a biblical process:

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (Matthew 18:15-17)

How did Boerne Christian Assembly handle this process?

1. The Leadership was consulted and invited into the conflict – the fault between husband and wife – Leadership counseled the couple (Matt. 18:15):

"Tremendous patience, longsuffering, and love were shown to the couple even in the face of violent railings, vicious accusations, cruelty and threats on their part directed at each other, other women at BCA, the families coming alongside of them in counsel and prayer, and the church leadership. The initial reason BCA intervened with this couple was to prevent their divorce in light of the husband's constant threats to divorce his wife."

2. One or two went to them (Matt. 18:16):

When confronted for sins, the wife insisted on a novel and unbiblical variation of the doctrine of sinless perfectionism to justify her claim that she had essentially not sinned in her home for close to half of a year. Over a period of years leading up to the excommunication, the elders of BCA and appointed families from the local church logged hundreds of hours counseling both the husband and wife in the Word of God, sometimes with signs of hope, and other times with none. At no time was inappropriate language leveled against the couple by leaders of BCA.

3. The couple was brought before the Church (Matt. 18:17)

The gradual and patient process involved counsel, appeals, confrontation, admonition, warnings, censure, discipline, and, ultimately, excommunication with the full consent of the church. As the final stage of a lengthy disciplinary process, the couple was brought before the church where they were admonished by the body, including men and women.

Conclusion:

1. Jennifer lied about the one man show, as S.J. offered in his math equation.

2. Jennifer misrepresented the plurality of leadership present in her doctored document

3. Jennifer lied about the lack of patience or time granted to her in the form of counseling

4. Jennifer misrepresented the breadth of counseling offered by number of people under the direction of the leadership

5. Jennifer misrepresented the leadership's address of Mark's sins

6. Jennifer continues to fester and lie about most of the circumstances surrounding her ongoing rebellion

Jennifer and her clan continue to claim this was a one man show. This was ramrodded through they say. Read the documents folks. Here the heart of the communication. Look at the period of time that lapsed from early counseling up to the excommunication. Does that sound impatient? Does that sound unloving? Does that sound uncaring?

Deal with the facts.

Signed,

Sniffinitout and Scoopinitup

2006-12-02T20:17:00.000-08:00

I get all these questions rolling around in my head while I read/type/read more.

It just occured to me to wonder why no one over at Blind Ministry Watchman has responded to the very clear statement by the VFM Board that Doug Phillips had NOTHING to do with counseling Ligonier Ministries. VFM Board of Directors had this to say about the serious charge:
"...one stated impetus for the article was the charge that Doug was involved in "behind-the-scenes counsel of Ligonier Ministries" concerning their lawsuit against a blogger going under the name of Frank Vance. For the record, this statement is false. Neither Doug Phillips nor any member of the Vision Forum staff have ever knowingly communicated with Ligonier Ministries representatives concerning this lawsuit or any lawsuit."

I guess Ministry watchman likes using the tactic of Adolph Hitler when he said:
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." Is it me or are other people starting to see the real inconsistency in the Epstein/Jackson story.

S.J.

Press release

2006-12-02T19:57:00.000-08:00

Commonsense on "watchdog's" lies

TERRORISTS AT MINISTRY WATCHMAN CONSPIRE TO DEFY GOD'S LAW AND DECEIVE CHRISTIANS

1. Ministry Watchman received and published the reports of Mark and Jennifer Epstein, a couple excommunicated for numerous sins including gross unrepentant lying, with no attempt to contact the local church before writing their article. They assumed the guilt of the local church and the innocence of the excommunicated. In so doing they broke the law of God.

2. Ministry Watchman lied to the world about their attempt to give an opportunity to respond prior to publication of their article. Exodus 20:16

3. Ministry Watchman has broken the law of God by falsely claiming Doug Phillips "counseled" Ligonier Ministries in their lawsuit against Frank Vance. Exodus 20:16

4. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by bringing accusations against elders without witnesses in violation of 1 Timothy 5:19

5. Ministry Watchman broke the law of God by claiming that Doug Phillips acted unanimously in excommunicating the Epstein's. Exodus 20:16

6. Ministry Watchman has proclaimed that they are antinomian by arguing that they are not bound by the law of God when it comes to holding themselves to the same standard it seeks to hold Doug Phillips to.

7. Ministry Watchman actively deceived Christians by presenting an email that looked like it was from VF.

Hitler or miniature watchdog...what's the difference?

2006-12-02T19:38:00.000-08:00

"in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility"
Adolph Hitler
Mein Kampf

Still Fed Up

Reading the Epstein's blog is like watching....

New category created at Still Fed Up

A Blast from the Past

Jennifer Epstein--Railer

The Lady in Red

Just in

Jennifer why did you lie?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Submitted to Jen's Gems

(almost) breaking news...

Is Jen censoring comments?

Jen goes to Arlington

Wrestling with the Epstein's Lies is like....

Praise the Lord for more courageous Christians

Truth cops

BREAKING NEWS straight from the VF website

Fruits of Epstein leadership

Introduction

Submitted to Jen's Germs er Gems

Mark "Black Mail" Epstein

Let's let this one ride for a while

Another good read

A legend in her (Jen's) own mind....

VF answers

Hey look over there...!

Those facts are troubling things

Submitted to Jen's Germs er Gems

Submitted to Mark Epstein's blog

Submitted to Jen's Germs er Gems

Submitted to Mark Epstein's blog

The House of Cards is Falling

More Lies Answered

Justice Primer 4.0

Read the Footnotes, Joe

Jennifer Epstein is Mrs. Binoculars!!!!

Epsteins Praise Kinist Race-Hating Bigot!

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:14)

The Epstein's Biggest Cheerleader Takes his Pom Poms and Call it's Quits!

Michael Metzler and poohsthink with more great-sense commentary!

Obvious thoughts about Ministrywatchman’s apology: James Wilson Saves Me Typing Time This Morning

It's Over Again for the Terrorist at MW

Ministry Watchman offers "A Public Apology"

Breaking News

Breaking News!

It’s Over for the Ministers of Propaganda

Evidence of the Epstein's Supterfuge

Tactic and History

Moderator's Comment

Jennifer Epstein’s Own Private Legal System

Jen Epstein Tells all of San Antonio, and then The World About Her Adultery

Introduction to this sordid affair.

"The Parable of the Bed"

Sunday, November 19, 2006

Two Sides of Forgiveness

Women as Doormats? I Don't Think So!!!!!!!

Procedural Due Process

Others Can See Clearly Now

Another former VF intern weighs in...sorta

Breaking News...

Stay tuned

“Church” According to Jennifer

I'm Confused

A former VF intern who is sick of all the lies

Let Facts Be Submitted to a Candid World

More Rage from the Heathen

Frank Vance is Whining Again

Submitted to Ministrywatchman.com

A question from Pooh's Think

Why Do the Heathen Rage?

Another former VF intern weighs in

The Fruit of the Womb – Children Evidence the Discipleship They Receive

Still fed up

The Sniff-meister weighs in.

Press release

Hitler or miniature watchdog...what's the difference?

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